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Thread: The Spread of Alarm and Information

The Spread of Alarm and Information

  1. #51
    Originally Posted by Hypevosa
    What would you like to see in terms of how information is spread when playing thief 4? When a guard finds a body, should he immediately run around telling other guards one by one that he found someone dead until everyone knows? Or should he just find one or two people for backup and they could act as a group searching for you? Maybe some levels should have a PA system of sorts where someone can try and make it to the nearest machine to alert the whole complex, or we could just stick with a big red alarm button? If someone sees you and you get away, should they tell every other guard they come across to watch out for moving shadows? or should they just keep it to themselves hoping to catch you and get the promotion?

    I keep imagining a scenario where there's a security office with an intercom is that allows anyone to spread a message to the whole building, and setting up a gas mine there so if someone should happen to find one of the many knocked out bodies in a closet, that they would be knocked out right before speaking into the intercom.

    the red button gives me the idea of use it to distract the guards

  2. #52
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    If Garrett is spotted, Guards/NPCs need to sound the alarm. That should mean that the guards form up in patrols and go look for Garrett.

    None of this 2 minutes of searching either. If Garrett is spotted, he should have to deal with a man hunt for the rest of the mission. The guards should keep searching of Garrett right up until the mission is over.

    Maybe even more City Watch guards should be called in as reinforcements to help in the search...of course, if Garrett is robbing a bad guys evil hideout, bringing in the City Watch to help out the criminals would be silly. In cases like this, only the guards in the level will be available to search for Garrett...no reinforcements for them.

  3. #53
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    I suspect that there is little point implementing such systems because almost everybody would just load the game instead.

  4. #54
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    Originally Posted by ToMegaTherion
    I suspect that there is little point implementing such systems because almost everybody would just load the game instead.

    ???? Wow, that response is so wrong on so many levels.....you must be joking.

  5. #55
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    Which part of it do you disagree with?

  6. #56
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    Originally Posted by ToMegaTherion
    I suspect that there is little point implementing such systems because almost everybody would just load the game instead.
    I too think that would be the majority response, rather than deal with the complex situation generated by their mistake a lot of people will go for the simpler reload option

    try asking in a poll and see what most people would do

  7. #57
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    I reckon that, for this question, the forum's population is going to be really unrepresentative of the game's audience in general.

  8. #58
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    ask at ttlg then there's a lot more over there

  9. #59
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    Originally Posted by Nate
    ???? Wow, that response is so wrong on so many levels.....you must be joking.
    actually he's right... people would skip the living with their mistake part and just load the old save if it was so unforgiving.

    If they realise it is genuinely garrett (proximity and light taken into account), or if they find someone brutally murdered, sure, sound an alarm. But if they think it's some riff raff looking to make a buck, I'm sure they'll try to take him on themselves.

    If you run and hide they'd probabaly assume they scared you off good as well.
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  10. #60
    Originally Posted by Hypevosa
    actually he's right... people would skip the living with their mistake part and just load the old save if it was so unforgiving.

    If they realise it is genuinely garrett (proximity and light taken into account), or if they find someone brutally murdered, sure, sound an alarm. But if they think it's some riff raff looking to make a buck, I'm sure they'll try to take him on themselves.

    If you run and hide they'd probabaly assume they scared you off good as well.
    This is EXACTLY why I feel my "localized alert system" (posted earlier in this thread) is the way to go. It's a good compromise because it makes the game more challenging for players but not in that 100% "all or nothing" kind of way, where you're either completely stealthy or have the whole place on a manhunt. Instead your mistakes are punished in gradations where the more ruckus you make, the more alert the whole area gradually becomes.

  11. #61
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    I am just a bit saddened that so many gamers would want less dynamism in the game if it meant that the player actually had to deal with mistakes.

    How about letting the more 'hardcore' gamers have this type of system, and the rest of you can save and reload your missions whenever things get too tough = we are all happy.

  12. #62
    Thanks Nate. I'm glad to see that there are people who aren't afraid of their games being challenging.

  13. #63
    Originally Posted by AngelRose777
    Darknessfalls....you can't be serious? Have you heard these people? They want it harder not easier! Heck, I'm not hardcore, and even I wouldn't mind it being harder rather than easier!

    I agree that the a.i. could be much better but that it's the levels and the multiple ways of getting the mission done that makes this game so fun. The freedom to go wherever as long as you have the ability to outsmart your opponent was always my fav part ^_^
    Yup, I was serious. And I already play on Normal (the easiest setting).

    I was referring mostly to the spreading of alarm and the ability to get away, though; not the AI in general. If the player messes up and one guard sees you, do you really want him to go run and by word-of-mouth cause nearly every guard in the castle be alerted and start looking for you? Taking them away from their posts, causing their alert levels to be raised when you end up getting to their area (assuming they go back to it), starting the same thing all over again if they see you in their area? That may be somewhat fine for levels where there's an alarm system, but I don't want very many levels with an alarm. To me, I wouldn't want the whole castle's alert level raised. It's similar to Assassin's Creed where every enemy somehow all the sudden knew you were the bad guy... yet you were in medieval times without radio communications invented yet. Give me a break. Regardless, no matter how every enemy gets on high alert, it's annoying from a gameplay standpoint to have that (or something close) happen. And to not be able to get away fairly easily, doubly annoying. Quick Load / Quick Save cycles. Yay... how fun.

    I want the AI enhanced, and there are many ways of doing so without being annoying. I think the spreading of alarm has the potential to be very annoying. It's a fine line. And to get away from guards shouldn't be such a chore that you run through half a level trying to get away. Enhancing the AI, giving them more realistic traits would be great. I've (and we've all) gotten T1/T2's AI down to a science now. It shouldn't be quite so predictable. But I hope EM realy treads softly when bringing more human elements to the AI, as it really has the potential to screw the gameplay up royally.

  14. #64
    I've considered what you guys have all said here, and when you are spotted I would prefer the following:

    -if a guard sees you, he calls out for help before/while attacking you = if other guards are within hearing range, they'll come running to help.
    *the guards in hearing range will also shout out for help while running to reinforce their fellow guards = you could get a lot of guards alerted to your presence due to a 'yell for help domino effect'

    -if a civilian spots you doing something wrong/being somewhere you aren't supposed to be = they should call out for help to alert any nearby guards. Also, they should go running to a guard post to gather some guards and then lead them back to where they last saw you.

  15. #65
    If you could have a different alert level for the guards that one alerts it would be more challenging and realistic. Often in real life those other guards may come running to help search but they never saw you like the first guard or servant and will be more likely to give up the search and head back to posts. What would also be great is the reinforcing state of mind. Essentially if you were able to have yourself spotted by the first person but stay hidden from the others say twice or so then the other guards would ignore the first person. Pull a "boy who called wolf"... I liked the idea of staging different crimes or scenarios like a knocked out guard with an empty bottle nearby. I would love seeing this sort of stuff in Thief 4.
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  16. #66
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    In real life, guards will tell where they saw the perp, and if the perp was moving in one direction and not leaving the grounds, some guards would go to other entrances to head them off and make sure the perp wasn't getting in elsewhere, as well as clumping up to reinforce areas they know are more vulnerable. That is, unless they have strict orders to stay at their posts, but on high alert.


    That reminds me. The City Watch in TMA had numeric codes for situations. Code 6, Code 8, Code 12, and Code 30, were the given examples, with Benny forgetting which code was correct, giving up, and just yelling, "Muurderr!"



    Code 06: "Murder!"
    Code 08: "Some guy punching another guy." (Assault with fists, then?)
    Code 12: Approximately a Thief/prowler/vandal on the premises.
    Code 30: Approximately "Intruder!" "Infiltration!" "Sound the Alarm!"

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