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Thread: "Beg thy pardon. Dost Thou have a moment to talk about The Builder?"

"Beg thy pardon. Dost Thou have a moment to talk about The Builder?"

  1. #26
    Originally Posted by tarhiel
    Herr_Garret, how do you know that Templars were inspiration for Hammerite order? I´m curious.
    First of all, it's GarretT, in my nickname as well as in the original. Second, the devs said so, if I am not mistaken.

  2. #27
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    .......................

  3. #28
    Originally Posted by jtr7
    I wonder...what percentage of the people who say the TDS designs are better are really just thinking about poly-count, or just defending the underdog?
    I think quite a few of them do it just to spite us... Here as well as in other topics.

  4. #29
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    Well, people on both sides do that.


    I think it must be the timing, technology, and the industry in relation to consumers, marketing techniques, and all that, that makes the difference in attitudes between the Dark Engine game enthusiasts and TDS enthusiasts like a friggin' generation gap but within 3 years! Classic vs. Pop.

  5. #30
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    How can I add image? I want to add some images but I can't understand how.
    "Not all shadows are cast by light, some are cast by darkness."

  6. #31
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    Originally Posted by Hamadriyad
    How can I add image? I want to add some images but I can't understand how.
    click the 'insert image button

    then enter the URL of the image in the pop up box

    and you should see something like

    Code:
    [ IMG]http://forums.eidosgames.com/images/editor/insertimage.gif[/IMG]
    only without the space after the '[' appearing in the reply to thread box

    then when you submit or preview the post you'll see the image

  7. #32
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    Thanks but how can I enter URL? I mean I want to add image from my computer, not a website.I think URL is for website. Am I wrong?
    "Not all shadows are cast by light, some are cast by darkness."

  8. #33
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    ah you can't do it from your computer it has to be an image on the web somewhere, you could try adding it as an attachment though see http://forums.eidosgames.com/faq.php...b3_attachments for details

  9. #34
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    Thanks a lot. Then I will try from website. (I found those images from website already)
    "Not all shadows are cast by light, some are cast by darkness."

  10. #35
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    Originally Posted by Hamadriyad
    Thanks a lot. Then I will try from website. (I found those images from website already)
    in that case just right click the image to get it's properties and the URL is right there just cut and paste it into the post image box

  11. #36
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    Thanks again.
    "Not all shadows are cast by light, some are cast by darkness."

  12. #37
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    Here is the original designs



    In-game



    TDS Hammerites




    I guess old Hammerites are better in drawings but because of technology, they seem a little weird to me in game. Priests are pretty good in TDS.
    "Not all shadows are cast by light, some are cast by darkness."

  13. #38
    Originally Posted by Hamadriyad
    TDS Hammerites



    Priests are pretty good in TDS.
    As you can see, they clearly suck.

  14. #39
    Originally Posted by Herr_Garrett
    I think quite a few of them do it just to spite us... Here as well as in other topics.
    . . . or, it simply could be a matter of opinion, period. Personally, I *like* the Hammerite design from TDS because I believe the ones from TDP and TMA stink. Give the Hammerites from TDP and TMA little funnels for hats and axes for weapons, and they could side work as the Tin Woodsman from Wizard of Oz. To me, the plate armor design from TDP and TMA looks too blocky and unwieldy, whereas the texture, shading, and design of the leather armor from TDS looks more realistic and *still* made them formidable opponents if you attempted to fight them.

    If T4 has Hammerites in plate armor again, cool. However, I recommend the devs take more interest in historical armor designs from, say, the mid-to-late Renaissance as a cue. Plus, advancements in graphics and rendering since TDS will make more detailed and realistic suits of armor possible.

    --Thieffanman

  15. #40
    No, you are assuming that the City equals modern (supposedly) free society where people can practice any religion they choose. Thief's universe is more of a medieval world, with the Hammerite Order being a Catholic Chirch type order. They prosecute Pagans with a vengeance and can only truly be threatened by new sects (Lutheranism = Mechanists)

    Fortunately for us the Mechanists are no more, so the City can succumb once more to the oppressing dogma of the Hammers. In short - they don't knock on your door to ask you politely if you have the time to talk of the Builder. They bash it down if you have been a proven Pagan. Granted they did leave some occult practices (the magic shop sign was present even in TDP) alone, but they are still closer to the Inquisition than to Jehova's Witnesses

  16. #41
    Originally Posted by Thieffanman
    I recommend the devs take more interest in historical armor designs from, say, the mid-to-late Renaissance as a cue.
    --Thieffanman
    You should do the same. Full plate armour is blocky and unwieldy. It wasn't designed for picnicing or ballet. It was supposed to give the maximum available protection to its wearer. The fact that the Hammers are able to move in them normally shows either that they are exceptionally strong (already demonstrated by their wielding those huge sledgehammers) or that they have methods for rendering the steel lighter yet retaining its strength. Both of which could apply to the Hammers.

    Boiled leather and studs don't. No to mention that it gives minimum protection. Leather armour for Garrett and thieves, yes; but not for the Hammers.

  17. #42
    Originally Posted by Herr_Garrett
    You should do the same. Full plate armour is blocky and unwieldy. It wasn't designed for picnicing or ballet. It was supposed to give the maximum available protection to its wearer.
    You're missing my point. I said the plate armor *design* for the Hammers in TDP and TMA is blocky and unwieldy. They don't look like warriors in plate armor; they look vaguely like men in motocross or hockey gear. I agree that plate armor is supposed to give the wearer maximum protection, but the way it was portrayed in TDP and TMA was done too poorly. The armor Hammerites wore in TDS worked well, partially because it was designed, and rendered, much better.

    Originally Posted by Herr_Garrett
    The fact that the Hammers are able to move in them normally shows either that they are exceptionally strong (already demonstrated by their wielding those huge sledgehammers) or that they have methods for rendering the steel lighter yet retaining its strength. Both of which could apply to the Hammers.
    This is all supposition. The Hammerites could be stronger, the armor could be lighter. Without proof statements from the game stating *exactly that*, it's only theorizing.

    Originally Posted by Herr_Garrett
    Boiled leather and studs don't. No to mention that it gives minimum protection. Leather armour for Garrett and thieves, yes; but not for the Hammers
    This particular portion of the discussion goes nowhere. You say they need plate armor, I say they do just fine with studded leather; neither will change the other's mind.

    --Thieffanman

  18. #43
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    Maybe there should be a rank system and we should able to recognize their ranks from their uniforms.
    "Not all shadows are cast by light, some are cast by darkness."

  19. #44
    To me the TDP and TMA Hammerites look like crazy zealots who don't mind sticking out like a sore thumb because they want to proclaim their dedication to everyone. Yeah, they look a little ridiculous, but that's because we're (sort of?) normal people, and they're a bunch of raging extremists. TDS Hammerites looked less weird, but I didn't like it that much because to me, they looked too low-key. They just looked like warriors. They're nutty holy warriors, for Chrissakes! Put on that gleaming silver and bright red, and strike true with thine holy hammer!

  20. #45
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    Yes. TDS Hammerites are too simple for fanatics. No hammer symbols, no nothing. If we look at their carhedrals etc. we see that they love those things. They should be showy.
    "Not all shadows are cast by light, some are cast by darkness."

  21. #46
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    The hammerites in the first two games were supposed to be wearing plate armour??

  22. #47
    Originally Posted by ToMegaTherion
    The hammerites in the first two games were supposed to be wearing plate armour??
    Surprise .

    This proves my point. The plate armor, and Hammer outfits, in T4 will hopefully be better designed and rendered so questions like these don't pop up.

    --Thieffanman

  23. #48
    I think the plate mail works well for the hammerites... Whether or not you think it looks too blocky doesn't really matter. It is blocky. I dont know if you're thinking of greek armor with abs and nipples molded in, but it was purely aesthetics. Hammerites like functional, and they like to make it themselves, they have forges in their churches even. The steel plates and hammers are for the hammerites, and the leather/cloth armor should be for the more down-to-earth pagans.

    The hammerites in TDS don't even look like hammerites. They're just... guys in armor.

  24. #49
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    Give the new Hammerites more metal to wear, more hammer symbolism, excessive use of metals everywhere, and make it obvious they worship The Builder through their technology of cutting up the earth, taming the earthy substances, shaping them to The Builder's will as they see it, and building from these materials, and committing atrocities against the earth to the Pagans' horror. The Hammers should show their pride, and should return to their inquisitions. They should never forgive and never forget to crush the seeds of rebellion that brought about the Mechanists. Holy Symbols! They should get rid of wands and return to holy Builder's tools in place of wands--same purpose, more appropriate symbolism, and only during war or to nullify Pagan magic--and bring back the clerics' somatic spell-casting. They should be able to outdo the City Watch with superior efficiency, though mete out questionable punishments. Their armour should make an enemy think twice about a confrontation, and scream devotion to The Master Builder. The red should have the subliminal effect of the promise of bloodshed should anyone go up against them.

  25. #50
    Originally Posted by kabatta
    Resource preservation is horrible.
    Unfortunate, however it is a symptom of the inferior brand of game known as Next-Gen.
    A rod of iron, in the flame, is transfigured and is no more.
    Thou canst never return unchanged from the forge.

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