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Thread: The swimming argument

The swimming argument

  1. #151
    Originally Posted by Platinumoxicity
    I think the undertow would be a bit more subtle than flesh-eating fish. If there is a strong undertow, when you swim too far off shore the stream of water pulls you underwater and you drown. That worked in CL. Also it would look cool when the stream pulls you down fast and the last bits of moonlight disappear as you descend into the blackness.
    Perhaps but it is more relatable. I swam out to far once and got stung by jellyfish so it does not have to be flesh-eating fish. Its also perfectly realistic so it is not going to puzzle the minds of people who are attacked or die this way making it more believable. The undertow option is more questionable because you would have to go REALLY far for it to be believable.

  2. #152
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    Originally Posted by 13LACK13ISHOP
    Perhaps but it is more relatable. I swam out to far once and got stung by jellyfish so it does not have to be flesh-eating fish. Its also perfectly realistic so it is not going to puzzle the minds of people who are attacked or die this way making it more believable. The undertow option is more questionable because you would have to go REALLY far for it to be believable.
    It doesn't have to be far. In the T2 FM it was about 10-20 metres. Also, getting eaten by fish isn't too probable I think. It's not like 100% of the times people drop into the sea they instantly get eaten by cannibal salmon. The most probable way to die in the sea is freezing to death. I dunno. Maybe if T4 would take place in the autumn or spring, maybe even winter, when the seawater is cold, You'd freeze to death before you could swim too far.

  3. #153
    it could always be like in the mutliplayer levels in Halo 3. Which GIANT turrets just hanging out waiting for you to get out of bounds.


    Logic and relativity to story be damned!
    Calls The Serpents To The Heels Of My Foes! Calls The Ravens To Pecks Their Eyes!
    Calls The Jackals, Carry Thems Away. Their Children To Gnaw Bones In The Night!

  4. #154
    Originally Posted by jtr7
    Electric-Eels. Or it could be like old-school games that reset your x,y,z position back on track.
    Naaa. I like to feel in control.

  5. #155
    Originally Posted by jtr7
    That would exclude dying, then, unless it's intentional suicide.
    Well it would be. Why else would swim you out into the sea? There is no loot. I am sure Garret has better places to go looking for loot.

  6. #156
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    I say let Garrett swim and let lightly armoured guards swim, climb and mantle. The very fact that they can do so would explain the fact that they are lightly armoured, wouldn't it?

    I support a more vertiginous, vertical Thief experience, and being pursued whatever your elevation adds to the exitement.

  7. #157
    Originally Posted by jtr7
    Electric-Eels. Or it could be like old-school games that reset your x,y,z position back on track.




    Water is as important as architecture, terrain, decoration, flavor, fleshing out, bringing alive, a complete ecosystem, atmosphere, and any other element added to the gameworld. It can be an enhancement, just there because it completes the scene or adds something extra and normal for a world, or it can be something to be traveled over, under, around and through like a wall, corridor, street, etc. The differences are the water-specific kinds of movement and that it can't be breathed. Booby-trapped terrain and cramped passages, again, are fundamentally no different as an obstacle course to navigate. Just a different flavor.
    Agreed. Excluding water seems very strange, and in the worse case feels like an artifical barrier.
    I have played Thief DP, TMA and TDS, T2X, COSAS and FM's. This does not mean that I am in any better position to voice my opinion than anyone else.

  8. #158
    I think water should be swimable but its not a necessarity to use it to complete a level or such. Its just a part of the environment and could be used to hide,shortcut, escape etc.

  9. #159
    Originally Posted by Yaphy
    I think water should be swimable but its not a necessarity to use it to complete a level or such. Its just a part of the environment and could be used to hide,shortcut, escape etc.
    Or find some loot!

  10. #160
    You never see any sewer workers - probably because there always stumbling across loot and going up in the world!
    I have played Thief DP, TMA and TDS, T2X, COSAS and FM's. This does not mean that I am in any better position to voice my opinion than anyone else.

  11. #161

    Smile

    Originally Posted by jtr7
    sg1c1801: "So I hear, the guys that clean the sewers, keep the pumps working, all that...?"
    Sg2c1802: "What?"
    sg1c1803: "I hear they've been vanishing... Poof! Turning up in missing bits and pieces. Like their heads."
    Sg2c1804: "Creepy!"
    sg1c1805: "Bet we don't get to count on flushing anything much longer."
    As always, spot on!
    I have played Thief DP, TMA and TDS, T2X, COSAS and FM's. This does not mean that I am in any better position to voice my opinion than anyone else.

  12. #162
    Water is necessary......it was an integral component of the first two games and should never have been taken out in T3. Technical limitations are not an excuse - it is needed for proper immersion - T3 lost so much by losing immersive water, rope arrows and large environments - they ALL need to be in T4 please!

  13. #163
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    Originally Posted by SneaksieThief
    Water is necessary......it was an integral component of the first two games and should never have been taken out in T3. Technical limitations are not an excuse - it is needed for proper immersion - T3 lost so much by losing immersive water, rope arrows and large environments - they ALL need to be in T4 please!


    ^
    Seconded.
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  14. #164
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
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    I think the swimming is a good place to hide or something...
    Of course it's not necessery....

  15. #165

    I wouldn't mind

    to have Garrett capable not only to swim as he did before, but also to navigate few canals. Garrett would have to learn maybe few new tricks related to modern versions of flash or puddle locks and might face some angry mills owners that in the middle age felt quite pissed off by the navigators who travelled across canals' sections confining with their land.

    Yes, overall, I think that swimming needs to be restored in the game and that game developments correlated with water (usage...mechanism...industry coherent with the original game setting of course), should be studied and introduced.
    "The Essence of Balance is Detachment"
    Glyph07

  16. #166
    Garret needs to be able to swim, the other option i feel is to have no lakes/canals/ rivers in Thief 4...which i dont want to think about.

    I had no complaints about thief 3 until I jumped into the docks water to evade a guard and found myself lying at the bottom witht the voice 'take him to pavelock..'....argh!

  17. #167
    Originally Posted by ToMegaTherion
    Also it's much harder to have the AIs respond adequately to water, as observed in Dark Project, Metal Age, and countless other games.
    Indeed, I was just playing Sabotage at Soulforge last night and a human enemy just disappeared on me. Turns out she fell in the water and drowned.

    I just figure that Garret's wearing a heavier ensemble in Deadly Shadows, and that's why he can't swim.

  18. #168
    definitley bring back swimming! but add some dangers, underwater traps, enemies that can swim..
    "This city could do with more red." "That's our lives your talking about!" "I'll probably be horrified once I'm sober."

  19. #169
    Originally Posted by jtr7
    He's clearly stripped down, with his arms all naked an' stuff.
    Yeah, but his gear could simply be heavier, regardless. It's just a way for me to justify his sudden lack of swimming ability, anyway. It's not like my theory is canon or anything. Being able to swim in a cloak while carrying a sword, a blackjack, and who knows what else, was very unrealistic, anyway.

  20. #170
    Originally Posted by razorstealth
    definitley bring back swimming! but add some dangers, underwater traps, enemies that can swim..
    ...or locking mechanism to unlock, always within the style of the period setting and within the skills of a thief.
    "The Essence of Balance is Detachment"
    Glyph07

  21. #171
    Originally Posted by jtr7
    Without his sword, he'd be less bogged down, heh heh. It doesn't help that all the TDS gear was way over-sized, I suppose. And of course, there's no difference when he uses up all his gear and just has the dagger, bow, and empty quiver, from when he's an über-arsenal.
    Maybe he's wearing steel-toed boots!

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