Thread: The swimming argument

The swimming argument

  1. #51
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    7,632
    .........................

  2. #52
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    1,245
    This LOVE of swimming is a little strange. I mean, swimming is a GOOD thing ONLY if it can be done well and makes sense.

    If the devs can do that, then great!

  3. #53
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    7,632
    .........................

  4. #54
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    5,540
    Swimmamble water also makes it possible to make high falls where you need to jump into but you need to find another way out. Like in the bonehoard for example.

  5. #55
    Originally Posted by jtr7
    Water that isn't deadly makes sense. Wells, fountains, waterfalls, rivers, the ocean, bays, aqueducts, tributaries, canals, sewers, water tables, underground springs, pools, baths, toilets, steam, boilers, rain and fog and snow and smog, runnels and rivulets and gutters, turbines, ponds, lakes, water tanks, vats, sinks, dripping, flooded areas, LIFE!
    You did dribble a bit onto the keyboard while writing that, didn't you?

    Elsewise, I wholly agree with you

  6. #56
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    1,642
    Originally Posted by gryphos
    >>They should make water optional

    Yeah, like maybe an easy/normal/hard/expert. Easy is no water anywhere. It’s a drought, and all the sewers are dry. Expert is water world, where the only way to get anywhere is swimming. The City is flooded! And you have to do all your missions with breath potions!
    I don't like that. Difficulty settings shouldn't effect water. Water in first 2 games is good enough. No need to change.
    "Not all shadows are cast by light, some are cast by darkness."

  7. #57
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    5,540
    Originally Posted by Hamadriyad
    Are you kidding? Difficulty settings can't change the city, shouldn't.
    Yep, kidding.

  8. #58
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    1,642
    Originally Posted by Platinumoxicity
    Yep, kidding.
    Funny then.
    "Not all shadows are cast by light, some are cast by darkness."

  9. #59
    To be fair though, the swimming controls in the first two games was kind of crappy. Especially trying to mantle out of the water.

  10. #60
    Originally Posted by DarthEnder
    To be fair though, the swimming controls in the first two games was kind of crappy. Especially trying to mantle out of the water.
    Crappy?! Swimming is as easy as walking/running. As for mantling out of the water, it only depends of the highness of the terrain at that point. If the area is well built, mantling out of water it isn't difficult at all.

  11. #61
    Originally Posted by Lady Rowena
    Crappy?! Swimming is as easy as walking/running. As for mantling out of the water, it only depends of the highness of the terrain at that point. If the area is well built, mantling out of water it isn't difficult at all.
    It's especially hard if the surface is sloped. It's like, ironically, a sharp ledge makes getting out of the water easier, and a gradual slope makes getting out almost impossible.

  12. #62
    I had difficulties getting out of the water in Cragscleft. That's a example.
    Surripio ergo sunt.

  13. #63
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    1,701
    difficulties getting out of water areas point more to insufficient thought being given to the design of the level rather than all water and swimmable areas being bad

    water areas and swimming offer extra opportunities for the level designer to come up with something interesting, innovative and challenging for the player, for example getting from a to b without drowning is one, taking a lit torch without it extinguishing or carrying an unconscious AI without them drowning from a to b would be another

    the challenge is whatever the level designer makes it, if it's just another breath holding puzzle that apparently bore some of you then maybe it's not a very good challenge, so suggest something better rather than dismiss swimming entirely, this forum is supposed to be making suggestions to add to the thief experience after all

    if the level designer fails to make good use of features like swimmable water it is hardly an argument for getting rid of the feature, it is more of an argument for getting a better level designer

  14. #64
    Originally Posted by esme
    difficulties getting out of water areas point more to insufficient thought being given to the design of the level rather than all water and swimmable areas being bad
    I never said it was. I said the controls for swimming were bad. Waterways are awesome. With better swimming controls The City could turn into Venice for all I care, I'd still be happy.

  15. #65
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    7,632
    ........................

  16. #66
    Originally Posted by gryphos
    >>They should make water optional
    Yeah, like maybe an easy/normal/hard/expert. Easy is no water anywhere. It’s a drought, and all the sewers are dry. Expert is water world, where the only way to get anywhere is swimming. The City is flooded! And you have to do all your missions with breath potions!
    >>I don't like that. Difficulty settings shouldn't effect water. Water in first 2 games is good enough. No need to change.

    Tongue was firmly in cheek on that one, Hamadryad. But I do want swimming.

  17. #67
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    1,701
    Garrett leaps from the high diving board, a double pike with a half twist aaaaaaaaand then he remembers he's playing on easy and smashes into the floor of the pool

    optional water ! seriously ?

  18. #68
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    7,632
    .....................

  19. #69
    I think part of what made Thief 1 and 2 so nifty (and Thief 3 so awful) was the 3-dimensional movement, or lack thereof. In the first two games, you had rope arrows, swimming... all things that gave you a real feeling of being crafty as you broke into a guarded castle, finding alternatives to the main gate. Thief 3 had... oh, pick the lock behind the back of the retarded guard. So clever!

    They REALLY need to bring back both rope arrows and swimming.

  20. #70
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    1,701
    and much the same argument I made for having swimmable water applies to rope arrows too

    I really missed them both in TDS

  21. #71
    Swimming definitely, it is a perfect tool for a theif (maybe guards should follow wet footsteps?).

    No water arrows though (how do you shoot a water arrow?).

    Rope arrows sound great. My favourite moments in Tomb Raider Underwords revolved around using the grappling hook, hopefully the ropes can be used in as many ways as that game.

  22. #72
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    7,632
    ..............................

  23. #73
    yeah swimming is a must. A master thief with keeper training who has an almost superhuman ability to disappear into shadows coupled with heightened dexterity and agility...but can't swim...absurd.

    BTW, anyone here ever climbed a rope? How about mantling up onto a ledge? That stuff is way harder than swimming

    and for my last argument... My 2 year old just learned to swim. Its time garret did (again) too.
    rope arrows = good

  24. #74
    There would have to be some way for the guards to get at you when you were in water... crossbows or something. In TDS it was too easy to lure the guards into the water where they would promptly sink. Even if that was quite entertaining to set up, with oil and noise...)

  25. #75
    Originally Posted by LordGervasius
    yeah swimming is a must. A master thief with keeper training who has an almost superhuman ability to disappear into shadows coupled with heightened dexterity and agility...but can't swim...absurd.

    BTW, anyone here ever climbed a rope? How about mantling up onto a ledge? That stuff is way harder than swimming

    and for my last argument... My 2 year old just learned to swim. Its time garret did (again) too.
    Maybe he had some new suede boots that he didn't want to get wet?

    When I played TDS and accidentally fell into the water (I lie, I jumped in) and died straight away, I was absolutely appalled!
    Water in the previous games always piqued a feeling of excitement in me, wondering what lay at the bottom... what secret holes/doors may be hiding...

    To take that away was just... traumatising to say the least...

    And then I played The Cradle and completely forgot about the water. I'm shallow like that, you see (excuse the horrendous pun).

Page 3 of 7 First First 1234567 Last