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Thread: [For the developers] Non Violent character in Thief 4?

[For the developers] Non Violent character in Thief 4?

  1. #1
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    [For the developers] Non Violent character in Thief 4?

    I wish to buy T4 but i dont' like a lot of violent games..

    There is the possibility that the main character can beat the enemies without kill them?

    Have you played Mirror's Edge?

    Have a nice day,

    Daniele, Italy.

    p.s.

    About the story maker:

    there is some possibility that the story could convey values such as justice, in robin hood style? without action in rambo "7" (or it was rambo 8?) style? :P


    bye bye!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ^_^


    p.s.
    if i can help you with my ideas (in my personal bad english for sure) contact me, i'll help gratis for sure! Yes! ^_^
    danielsaaan@yahoo.it
    bye! ^^

  2. #2
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    I see this has been marked "For the developers"

    It's funny that Mirrors Edge has been mentioned....

    Now I remember playing that game and thinking that if you took the game play elements, regressed the setting by say about 300 years, whacked in some steam punk and a twist of fantasy then you would get a very interesting take on a Thief game.

    The ability to run around a "Thief Styled" city like that (maybe not at the pace of Mirrors edge) but definitely with all the running, jumping and climbing trees would be a fascinating game to experience.

    I'm not saying that Mirrors Edge was your inspiration for reviving this franchise but I have to say that the first person aspect of that game worked well on a console, in fact too well as I got a bit sick from whizzing around that fast.

  3. #3
    I need to be able to swing my blackjack... So no.

    I don't think the general gamer will agree with you and Eidos will definitely not. If they are going to be able to sell any copy of this game they won't leave some sort of violence out. Thief isn't about killing, or spreading complete chaos even though that might be fun for some though ^^

    Originally Posted by brawl
    There is the possibility that the main character can beat the enemies without kill them?
    Have you actually played the previous games?

    Originally Posted by brawl
    Have you played Mirror's Edge?
    Mirror's Edge is at some points quite violent.


    If you are talking about violence in a way like it is in for example GTA, Postal or basically any other shooters I can gurantee you that it won't be found here. But there will always be some kind of violence involved, and that goes for most games.

    Just my thoughts

  4. #4
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    No reason why you couldn't, just trying show an example of how a first person view has worked well in a game and hasn't been a straight up shooter.

    Edit:

    Sorry I mean I'M NOT GONNA BY IT IF GARRETTS NOT IN IT!

  5. #5
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    I think that inside Mirror's Edge there is for sure some kind of violence. That is "off concept" by the style of the protagonist becouse "Runners stay away from police mans and police man don't care about them", but then, in that story, Faith (she is the main character) can disarm police man without kill them (on ps3 there are trophyes that can be accomplished only finishing the game without one kill).
    Now, if you look at the actions that Faith do when is disarming someone you can notice stuffs like: such as anger, a bit of brutality.
    This is, i think, choice of marketing.

    Now, i wish to say that i have not played thief 1 and 2, but just a little bit of thief 3 on xbox.
    I remember that the main character used a small species of bat to stun its "victims". In my opinion, this is not..
    ehmm... this is not the method they would use a gentleman, especially if you meet a beautifull woman, and would put her "to rest momentarily in a different way", gentleman can't use that methods...
    The character of thief 3 was therefore a fairly obnoxious guy from this point of view...

    It is strange, but I have no ideas at the time, I do not know how to change this think. Maybe he (or she) would use some kind of "sleeping drugs" and "sleeping pills". Or just, watch this video to have another idea! XD
    at 0:57
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmMXk0bA8gk

    Maybe this on the ass! XD
    ..and perhaps on awakening she might think: <<dart? look this is a very nice dart, keep it to remember this nice day! XD>>


    Or samething to do, much more complex (for experts videogame makers, but not for artist and writers becouse is their work to create this things): just some solution much more "romantic".
    But i can't help for this, sorry, maybe for romantics solutions, you need to make a gameplay in according with a screenplay precise, leading people at the right time, to do right things in the right place. solutions with different and very imaginative solutions for any problem. with a romantic main character.

  6. #6
    >brawl
    When not using the blackjack to knock people out, Garrett uses (knock out) gas arrows and gas bombs/grenades to render enemies unconscious. A sleeping dart would not really be necessary,

  7. #7
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    ohhh i'll buy thief3 soon!! i was scared by using the blackjack on ladies but with gas would be really different! wander solution, i really like it. this stuff let me think that the main character was a very big alchimist, isn't him? ^_^

  8. #8
    No I am afraid not. He buys most of his gas weapons. And they are all to rare I am afraid.
    Thief 4 should implement access to higher quantities of gear and equipment( perhaps even alchemy), like more gas arrows/crystals (and the ability to go for crystal hunting), but still have a maximum item and loot slots/room and weight when it comes to load before slowing garret down.

  9. #9
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    Originally Posted by Watcheratthegatesofdusk
    No I am afraid not. He buys most of his gas weapons. And they are all to rare I am afraid.
    Thief 4 should implement access to higher quantities of gear and equipment( perhaps even alchemy), like more gas arrows/crystals (and the ability to go for crystal hunting), but still have a maximum item and loot slots/room and weight when it comes to load before slowing garret down.
    oh ok, no problem friend! ^_^ i will look at the violence-style in thief 4 and then i'll decide to buy it or not.. But now, maybe we can use this topic to give developers some good ideas about this concepts.. ^_^
    I belive that many videogames company are watching on "alternative solutions". Much important, I think, it's that the gameplay must be "2.0".. Just like DICE have done with a FPS like Mirror's Edge. The point I belive is this: new gameplay (2.0) = much gameplay freedom = fantasy new solutions..... Just innovation + fantasy. And now, with ps3 and 360, developers have new chance for innovations, just the have to study!

  10. #10
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    were thief 2 and 1 violent in this sense?

  11. #11
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    Originally Posted by brawl
    I wish to buy T4 but i dont' like a lot of violent games..

    Mirror's Edge?

    No offense, but have you finished mirror's edge? to the end of the game you just start shooting ALLOT of people, or if you want to punch them to death they shoot you. Not an good example, also thief 2 would have been a better example I think, you barely kill in it(if you play on expert) and O come on, you even against the black jack, its A GAME. What are you 7? the game is for teen so if you can't even black jack some one then its no game for you.(sorry that I got a bit offensive but that was just freaking insane) I would so understand if you would say no violence like shooting games and dead space. I think these games take it to far, but even saying black jacking a woman on the head is to violent? I mean you not even allowed to kill innocent!
    "There can not be peace without war. And peace is a bloody business, for more People die for the cause of peace, then die for the cause of war." -Lukas Jonathan Stoll

  12. #12
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    Originally Posted by Sapare
    No offense, but have you finished mirror's edge? to the end of the game you just start shooting ALLOT of people, or if you want to punch them to death they shoot you. Not an good example, also thief 2 would have been a better example I think, you barely kill in it(if you play on expert) and O come on, you even against the black jack, its A GAME. What are you 7? the game is for teen so if you can't even black jack some one then its no game for you.(sorry that I got a bit offensive but that was just freaking insane) I would so understand if you would say no violence like shooting games and dead space. I think these games take it to far, but even saying black jacking a woman on the head is to violent? I mean you not even allowed to kill innocent!
    about ME it is becouse the game could be finished without one kill, there is a trophy on ps3 for this, not kill, in the end of the game, mean disarming them. So, there developers give us two choices from the start to the end of the game.

    About violence, it's complex to explain, this is becouse my english vocabolary is really poor. For this reason i ask sorry i now i will be not clare about the reasons on what i say: i belive, that for me, the approach to defeat a woman with a blackjack is much more realistic and violent of the mutilations that i done playing dead space (game that i found beautiful).
    Now about reasons, i belive that i can, in my mind and with my immagination, understand what a woman could feel when smashed with a blakjack, while, my mind, really can't understand the pain seen in dead space, becouse i have really touched with my head on somethin "hard" on the ground while i was children, falling down (i remember all the pain). For this reasons, much im near with compassion on a woman "touched" with a black jack (in the end also becouse i belive her like she have 5 senses, just while playing, i want, force myself to belive it, that she can taste with her human senses the main character). I would like to belive that I can choose a much "sweet way to get her in other way" for some moment.

  13. #13
    Originally Posted by brawl
    about ME it is becuse the game could be finished without one kill, there is a trophy on ps3 for this, not kill, in the end of the game, mean disarming them. So, there developers give us two choices from the start to the end of the game.
    You've dug yourself a hole here, since you haven't understood yet what people have been trying to tell you I'll say it again;
    Thief isn't about killing or about using violence to achieve your goals

    Of course there are, as you mention like in Mirror's Edge alternative ways to reach your goals, in all Thief series you have a weapon arsenal consisting loads of weapons wich represents different gamestyles. If you prefer to finish the game by ghosting it you can do that without having to knockout anyone of those poor AI's out during the whole game.
    Thief can therefore be finished without killing anyone, perhaps putting someone to sleep though.

    Since you are as you say new to the series I don't think you should just bump in and already have a clear picture of what this game is about, have a go with the other Thief games and see what they are like, I'm quite sure you will notice what this game is built up around and I for one is quite sure that they won't just let go of that concept for a 4th game in this serie. Nuff' said.

  14. #14
    I think nobody really is giving a straight answer?

    YES you can play Thief without killing anybody or using violence. In fact, at the expert difficulty level, you are required NOT to kill anybody. In general trying to kill people in Thief is not recommended as your character is very weak in combat, which forces you to use stealthy methods.

    As regards violence and using the blackjack. Using the blackjack renders people unconscious so you don't kill them. You can also use gas weapons as was mentioned, but these are rare. I'm not sure why you'd be afraid to use the blackjack, as it's a weapon that's designed not to kill. As I've mentioned before that the game is designed not to kill, the blackjack is not considered a lethal weapon. And since most characters which are not guards are not threatening to you, you don't have to use it on civilians.

    Having said that, you mention that although you can use violence in mirror's edge, it gives you the 'choice' not to do so. So therefore, I should also let you know, that it is perfectly possible to play Thief in such a way that none of the characters is ever aware you are there, and therefore that you don't have to use either the blackjack, mines, sword or anything of the kind. That's in fact how many of us have played the games, and its not particularly hard to do either if you play on the normal difficulty level.


    Having said THAT - Thief is 'not' a game about freedom, and many of us would be disappointed if there were 'alternate' FUNDAMENTAL WAYS of playing. Meaning, to clarify that before I'm misunderstood, thief is supposed to be a game where you play a thief, a person who avoids confrontation and uses stealth. Freedom in Thief means the freedom to plan your own approaches to your objectives in huge maps, the freedom to deal with obstacles in your own way - but NOT the freedom to choose whether you want to play a thief or a warrior, whether to kill everybody or not. Thief should not be Deus Ex - (and similarly, Deus Ex, another great game which to me IS about freedom of playstyle, should not be Thief) Killing should be hard, and discouraged as only a last resort when you've been spotted and can't hide away.

  15. #15
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    i undertand yours concepts and thx for eplain its to me!
    absolutley, i have played only 2 or 3 chapters in T3, so i can't say so mutch about gameplay. I say just that for me using blakjack on civilians is sad, and this was the reason why i was left T3 on xbox1. Now u tell me that using it on civilians was not necessay, but i couldn't find this another way to go on at that time.
    Guys i dont want waste your time talking about "nothing", becouse i repeat that i'm concious that i have played t3 just a little bit. I hope in T4 there will be a lot of free gas sleepz arrows! ^^

  16. #16
    Wow crazy people,go play barbie or something.If you blackjack a women in the game,she will not feel it.She is a computer program.no matter how hard you whack her in the head,she will NOT feel the same pain as you did falling on your head as a kid.I promise.Sorry for being rude,but I just dont simply understand how on earth you could play a game such as dead space which was one of the most violent games ever imo,and then after dismembering former human beings,could actually even suggest feeling bad about blackjacking a lady.How hard exactly did you fall on your head as a kid???Sorry,this is JUST my opinion.Thanx

  17. #17
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    Originally Posted by huzi73
    Wow crazy people,go play barbie or something.If you blackjack a women in the game,she will not feel it.She is a computer program.no matter how hard you whack her in the head,she will NOT feel the same pain as you did falling on your head as a kid.I promise.Sorry for being rude,but I just dont simply understand how on earth you could play a game such as dead space which was one of the most violent games ever imo,and then after dismembering former human beings,could actually even suggest feeling bad about blackjacking a lady. How hard exactly did you fall on your head as a kid??? Sorry,this is JUST my opinion.Thanx
    looooool XD and you should have to ask me "and how many times?" XD
    not, really, i belive u are in rights. The point is just that i found rude a character that smash ladies, and i found like a hero, a character that "destroy" terribles monsters in a space ship. Just this is my opinion. :P
    Absolutley, i have got the wrong way to speak about violence, i was in wrong about this.
    I should have to say just that i -hate- a character who smash a lady. but about violence the main character can do what ever he would with his enemies, but, to be nice to me, must be in the right contest with the rights enemies. Ok that is all fiction, but u really feel that it's a complex mix of poligons textures and shaders while playing? I just feel my emotions, and my emotions are different while I'm shhoting a woman in Resident Evil 5 or a man, for exemple. But i could just say that for me is terrible different, with emotions, knoking down a woman with a piece of blackjack, but not giving the hell a monster in dead space. And i can complicate many other exemples, becouse emotions are infinitive... and arts, make justhumans felling theirs emotions.
    For exemple while watching a pictures painted by a famous painter (my english here is gone wild XD) do you know that the picture is "just a picture", but what do you feel inside of your heart? In It's hollows dont you see passion, or happines, or hate, or "horrible"... but that stuff is just oil and colors.. :P

  18. #18
    He's jerking you around people. He doesn't like violent games, but he calls himself "brawl"?

    I'm sure.

  19. #19
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    Originally Posted by DarthEnder
    He's jerking you around people. He doesn't like violent games, but he calls himself "brawl"?

    I'm sure.
    this is becouse i like smash bros brawl (the name of a fomous nintendo game). seriously do u think this thing? ^_^
    i have not talked in any aggressive way i hope, with anyone! ^^ I'm, sorry if i give you this impression! ^^

  20. #20
    You sound like a powder keg ready to explode to me.

  21. #21
    Okay, let's review.

    So if you take a guy, you shoot him 20-30 times with an improvized engineering laser, then stomp on his mutilated, bleeding, bloody body to ensure he's dead (Dead Space style), it's alright, just because he's a man and men are definately not human beings and they can't feel a thing, but blackjacking a woman to ensure unconciousness for a few hours is utterly, horribly wrong and must be punished ?

    Wtf.

    Oh, and it is in Garrett's character to not give a damn about anyone but himself (two exceptions being possibly Artemus and Viktoria). It's what makes him such an interesting and well-liked personna.
    "Blindness is the manfools.
    Theys gathers up treasures and greeders themselves on golds rocks and fetters.
    The Woodsie One wreaks thems with lilacs and nettles,
    And gather they bones for his porridge and feathers."


    http://xs537.xs.to/xs537/09126/csigg273.jpg

  22. #22
    Originally Posted by brawl
    looooool XD and you should have to ask me "and how many times?" XD
    not, really, i belive u are in rights. The point is just that i found rude a character that smash ladies, and i found like a hero, a character that "destroy" terribles monsters in a space ship. Just this is my opinion. :P
    Absolutley, i have got the wrong way to speak about violence, i was in wrong about this.
    I should have to say just that i -hate- a character who smash a lady. but about violence the main character can do what ever he would with his enemies, but, to be nice to me, must be in the right contest with the rights enemies. Ok that is all fiction, but u really feel that it's a complex mix of poligons textures and shaders while playing? I just feel my emotions, and my emotions are different while I'm shhoting a woman in Resident Evil 5 or a man, for exemple. But i could just say that for me is terrible different, with emotions, knoking down a woman with a piece of blackjack, but not giving the hell a monster in dead space. And i can complicate many other exemples, becouse emotions are infinitive... and arts, make justhumans felling theirs emotions.
    For exemple while watching a pictures painted by a famous painter (my english here is gone wild XD) do you know that the picture is "just a picture", but what do you feel inside of your heart? In It's hollows dont you see passion, or happines, or hate, or "horrible"... but that stuff is just oil and colors.. :P
    So since youre so sensitive,why dont you rather :
    a)rename yourself cotton bunny
    b)play non violent games like the sims
    c)imagine all females in the thief universe are aliens in disguise

    Just please dont ask the EM devs to replace the blackjack with gas bombs or a stuffed bunny,and dont even think of requesting all ai models to be male.and anyway,hitting a female unconsious with a gas bomb still results in her falling.people who fall uncontrollably usually end up getting hurt,so you're still harming females...

  23. #23
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    I just exposed my opinions on mains characters style. For me the main character of Dead Space is an hero.
    I dont' want to punish any "emotion" that some one coul feel playing trought blakjaking a female, just: that that I feel is totally different by anyone, and this think is valid for anyone in confrontation of anyone. I cant' say my opinions? We are all different.
    Yes, I have a lot of life complex, I do not knoe who I am, I really i'm sad for a lot of life motivations. Sometimes I'm straight, sometimes I'm really much pathetic. But if i found one think that is -for me- horrible i'll tell. For me, blackjaking a girl is horrible. Becouse i want "tell", this is my freedom, and I have not fear to say what i think, becouse i do it without offending anyone. "With respect....... I really hope".
    Cheers!!!

  24. #24
    Originally Posted by brawl
    I just exposed my opinions on mains characters style. For me the main character of Dead Space is an hero.
    I dont' want to punish any "emotion" that some one coul feel playing trought blakjaking a female, just: that that I feel is totally different by anyone, and this think is valid for anyone in confrontation of anyone. I cant' say my opinions? We are all different.
    Yes, I have a lot of life complex, I do not knoe who I am, I really i'm sad for a lot of life motivations. Sometimes I'm straight, sometimes I'm really much pathetic. But if i found one think that is -for me- horrible i'll tell. For me, blackjaking a girl is horrible. Becouse i want "tell", this is my freedom, and I have not fear to say what i think, becouse i do it without offending anyone. "With respect....... I really hope".
    Cheers!!!
    Ok...

  25. #25
    I think there's no need for all the negativity. I'd doubt these would be interesting forums for people to troll. And people have their phobias. Some people can't stand fighting spiders in games because they're arachnophobic, which I never personally understood.

    In any case, if you really don't want to blackjack people, you can try ghosting the game at lower difficulty (that is, try and go completely undetected), or otherwise unfortunately this would not be the game for you. Most people will not enjoy having too many gas weapons, as they're very easy to use, and would have made the game very easy and unrealistic - which was partly the reason they're so rare and expensive in the previous games.

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