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Thread: Thief IV - STEALTH System Discussion Thread

Thief IV - STEALTH System Discussion Thread

  1. #1

    Thief IV - STEALTH System Discussion Thread

    What it is going to be?

  2. #2
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    Exactly as in Thief 2
    Definition: 'Love' is making a shot to the knees of a target 120 kilometers away using an Aratech sniper rifle with a tri-light scope.

  3. #3
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    similar to all the thief games either first or third person

  4. #4

    A Whole New Kind of Stealth, True Keeper Stealth!

    With the end of Thief Deadly Shadows, Garrett's story has come to a very interesting path, hasn't it? The gravitas of his personality always stemmed from being sarcastic, witty and misanthropic, yet now, he has become the "One True Keeper," despite the Keepers supposedly being removed for all time - Their books all blank and the knowledge lost.

    Suppose Garrett now must deal with an enemy greater than any he has encountered before... Himself! What sort of abilities could he possess as the One True Keeper? If he has truly learned as much as he looked to at the end of TDS, an obvious and very cool epiphany, will Garrett now have supernatural thieving skills?

    If so, what sort of targets could he go after? Oh its so cool! Think of it! Perhaps only the one true keeper would be able to stealthily disrupt or invade the lairs of powerful enemies / supernatural enemies / even kings maybe! With Thief 4, the anty could be upped so high the sky is the limit!
    The Many: What is a drop of rain, compared to the storm? What is a thought, compared to the mind? Our unity is full of wonder which your tiny individualism cannot even conceive

  5. #5
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    i dont think its a good idea to give him supernatural abilities. he already has a massive edge over his foes anyway so why make it even easier for him?

  6. #6
    True.
    The Many: What is a drop of rain, compared to the storm? What is a thought, compared to the mind? Our unity is full of wonder which your tiny individualism cannot even conceive

  7. #7
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    He should probably take his thiefy gear, start planning a mission and steal some stuff, like he always does. After the job the keepers would come to his apartment and say: "But Garrett, you are supposed to be the one true keeper now, you're supposed to act like it too." And Garrett would answer: "Like hell I should! Go taff yourselves, I've got bills to pay."

    And Garrett would also have let the young girl go, because he wouldn't want the kind of responsibility that he had, for her. Also, because he has more important things to do.

    Sorry if I'm so fundamentally against Garrett's transformation, but I just think that Garrett is better than that. He doesn't need to be transformed to some Jedi Master. He's perfect the way he is.

  8. #8
    Originally Posted by GmanPro
    Exactly as in Thief 2
    This.

  9. #9
    I'm actually for the idea of Garrett's transformation which is why I don't think he should be the player character anymore. He's the One True Keeper now and he's too busy trying to maintain balance in The City to be pulling heists.

    It's time to play an up and coming thief in the City who has to deal with constantly being manipulated by Garrett.

  10. #10
    Sometimes a series jumps the shark, and needs rebooting.

    Why is it that every protagonist in every movie/game/book have to be some sort of 'chosen one'? Or the 'One True Path and The Way and The Messiah'?

    Garrett is not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy.

  11. #11
    Sometimes a series jumps the shark, and needs rebooting.

    Why is it that every protagonist in every movie/game/book have to be some sort of 'chosen one'? Or the 'One True Path and The Way and The Messiah'?

    Garrett is not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy.
    -dogsolitude_uk
    Protagonist


    Yeah, that's why I think it's brilliant to consider the options. Garrett being the One True Keeper gives us as the player, options. Options are good (See System Shock 2 for details)
    Now, I know what you're thinking and I completely understand. Don't fix a system that isn't broke.
    I.E. Garrett steals using only his wits and his stealthy discretion, mainly just because he's just that darn good! We all love that, but with the ending of TDS, now Garrett HAS to be something more... To continue the story.

    No Dog, you're absolutely right! Garrett is no messiah. That's just what could make him even cooler... He has this power now, but doesn't want it, but you know he's going to have to face it at some point. Garrett can be just as interesting as usual, even better, if they take this chance to add even more to his character.

    I'm not saying copy system shock 2 and give us a ridiculous amount of tools to use, or make the game too easy, all I'm saying is let's at least give Garrett something new now that he is the one true keeper.
    How to win in thief? We all know the routine. Hide in the dark, stealth attack, but there are also situations in reality where there is no darkness... How could Garrett overcome without being diced to pieces by twenty drunken guards?

    Not by whoopin all of them like an assassin or anything, but don't tell me you're never had fantasies of invisibility! Maybe if only for a moment? Or, possibly the ability to sense what is around the corner, see through walls (only for a short amount of time, only a few times each level)

    At this point, Garrett can't get much cooler without being given some supernatural abilities, at least one. IMO But whatever happens, I'm still gonna luv it
    The Many: What is a drop of rain, compared to the storm? What is a thought, compared to the mind? Our unity is full of wonder which your tiny individualism cannot even conceive

  12. #12
    I think Garrett's abilities were always a little bit beyond natural human abilities. What I mean by that is, Garrett, instructed by the Keepers, can virtually disappear in darkness or semi-darkness. If someone isn't looking for him, he's pretty much invisible. I don't think his status as the One True Keeper should change his stealth abilities. The Keepers themselves say "his heart was clouded and his balance lost, but his abilities were unmatched." He's already one of the best. The One True Keeper idea should be more of a lore idea, binding Garrett back into a war between order and chaos that he want's nothing to do with.

  13. #13
    It seems Garrett always has been in service to fate and "the balance"(having saved the world/city three times). Being the True Keeper probably only solidify this position (much to Garrets annoyance I guess).
    I hope they don't give him any "super powers", he should, as always, have abilities more tied to what is "uncanny" and undefinable (Tied to perception and "fate") like how he managed to spot the keeper as a child and of course his ability to sneak unseen.

  14. #14
    hopefully nothing like the training mission in Deadly Shadows where it literally shows you the path to take through the shadows as if we are all idiots.

  15. #15
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    Guys, there are a lot of problems with Thief DS...but how it manages in game sounds in regards to stealth AND how it manages lighting in regards to stealth IS FAR SUPERIOR to Thief 1 and 2.

    In the early Thief games, all you had to do is stand on a puddle of shadow and you were hidden. Your silhouette wasn't factored in.

    Also, in the early Thief games, ambient sounds couldn't drown out the sounds you made moving around.

    Thief DS could do all of that.

    If they just stick to an updated Thief DS stealth system (in regards to lighting and sound), everything should be just fine.

  16. #16
    Originally Posted by Ice1019
    The One True Keeper idea should be more of a lore idea, binding Garrett back into a war between order and chaos that he want's nothing to do with.
    Definately. As far as I remember, in previous games he wanted to retire from thieving completely. Why would he give a damn about keeping balance? (Balance is for sissies by the way).

    Originally Posted by Nate
    Guys, there are a lot of problems with Thief DS...but how it manages in game sounds in regards to stealth AND how it manages lighting in regards to stealth IS FAR SUPERIOR to Thief 1 and 2.

    In the early Thief games, all you had to do is stand on a puddle of shadow and you were hidden. Your silhouette wasn't factored in.

    Also, in the early Thief games, ambient sounds couldn't drown out the sounds you made moving around.

    Thief DS could do all of that.

    If they just stick to an updated Thief DS stealth system (in regards to lighting and sound), everything should be just fine.
    I haven't played Deadly Shadows in a long time, but one thing it made too easy was the lack of footsteps while crouching.

    Other than that, sounds just about right to me. There is the technology to tighten up the lighting and sound.

  17. #17
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    Yeah, I agree that there should be some minor sound caused by even crouched movement....especially on noisy surfaces (makes a use for moss arrows)

  18. #18
    Garrett with super powers? No, not what I meant at all. How about a sixth sense? You know, like the one he already has except now you can use it at whim?

    I just feel like its a moot point for Garrett to be the One True Keeper if no changes are made to his abilities or percetion. What's the point of that? All he gets is a hand tatoo of a key? That's like having en epiphany and going right back to the path you've supposed to have already walked. Nah man, let it lead into greater things.

    The more often Garrett tries to steal for a living and fails, because of this or that, epic crusades, the less credible he is as a good thief, because he always seems broke. I think its about time Garrett transcends what he's been doing for the past 10 years.
    The Many: What is a drop of rain, compared to the storm? What is a thought, compared to the mind? Our unity is full of wonder which your tiny individualism cannot even conceive

  19. #19
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    If Garrett really wanted the powers of the Glyphs he could have just stayed with the Keepers. I think he isn't interested in that power.

    That, or he pulls a Kyle Kattarn and gets corrupted by his new powers. Then decides to stop using them because he doesn't want them to control him.
    Definition: 'Love' is making a shot to the knees of a target 120 kilometers away using an Aratech sniper rifle with a tri-light scope.

  20. #20
    Yeah, I agree with Gman, Garrett doesn't want superpowers, he certainly doesn't need them. Glyphs having a corrupting influence on him might be cool, literally fighting to keep the Balance within him.

    The stealth in Thief should be a hair beyond reality. I think I mentioned before that the Keepers have this almost preternatural ability to not be noticed, especially when they are in shadow. But, disappearing in an only slightly darkened hallway is pushing it.

  21. #21
    I heard something about a cover system and no shadow cover like the original titles? I hope it is not true else it looks that somebody has crap ideas and others agree with him.
    Luckily there there will be the Dark mod also to have a backup just in case.

  22. #22
    I would strongly advice against removing the Garretts ability to hide in/"merge with" shadow, as it seems to be the prime aspect of his (and probably keepers ) ability of move unseen. (It seems like a non-glyph based "meta-physical" ability, to use shadows to withdraw shadows oneself from the perception of others if no direct observation has already been established)

  23. #23
    "I heard something about a cover system and no shadow cover like the original titles? I hope it is not true else it looks that somebody has crap ideas and others agree with him.
    Luckily there there will be the Dark mod also to have a backup just in case."
    - kin

    Crap ideas? Why is it a crap idea to add new gameplay elements to a series that is so old? And whoever said I thought it was a good idea to remove shadows is a moron. That's not what I said.
    The Many: What is a drop of rain, compared to the storm? What is a thought, compared to the mind? Our unity is full of wonder which your tiny individualism cannot even conceive

  24. #24
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    The cover based stealth system is in DX3. Thief 4 obviously has to have shadows .... right EM!?!?
    Definition: 'Love' is making a shot to the knees of a target 120 kilometers away using an Aratech sniper rifle with a tri-light scope.

  25. #25
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    Post

    Originally Posted by DarthEnder
    I'm actually for the idea of Garrett's transformation which is why I don't think he should be the player character anymore. He's the One True Keeper now and he's too busy trying to maintain balance in The City to be pulling heists.

    It's time to play an up and coming thief in the City who has to deal with constantly being manipulated by Garrett.
    I'm pretty sure i left something just like this in DO'S and DON'TS.
    Awesome Idea.

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