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Thread: Rahabim Ideas?

Rahabim Ideas?

  1. #1

    Rahabim Ideas?

    Since Both Zephon and Melchiah both have threads already i thought I'd start one for Rahab.

    So I've been thinking about how the Rahabim could be implemented and I've come to the conclusion that while the ability to swim in water is there forte I feel the only way to really make it work would be to go a bit more outside teh lore. so here are my ideas

    -Serpent Slither: besides being swimmers the Rahabim looked like snakes so I thought one of there abilities could be the power to contort themselves to fit into small crevices that other classes couldn't get into and wait there to ambush . when a human comes close they can leap out in ambush and attack. This would mean humans would have to be careful around areas they know Rahabim can ambush from. Its more like a trap class than a stealth class and I feel it fits Rahabs Passive methods. Alchemist can burn them out of there hidey holes if they know where to look.

    = Snake Charm: -- For some reason when i think of the Rahabim I get this idea of hypnotic powers in their eyest=. I know there is no real Lore to support anything close to this but there's nothing that says they didn't have powers like that and Kain had some hypnotic abilities in BO. the lore excuse could be Raziel being a wraith was immune to it. They can use it to make illusions of fellow vampires to confuse the enemy and to distort the vision of hunters lowering their accurcay. it would be a very interesting support class in my opinion.


    - Anyone else got an idea for what they could do.
    -

  2. #2
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    Originally Posted by Umbralim
    Since Both Zephon and Melchiah both have threads already i thought I'd start one for Rahab.

    So I've been thinking about how the Rahabim could be implemented and I've come to the conclusion that while the ability to swim in water is there forte I feel the only way to really make it work would be to go a bit more outside teh lore. so here are my ideas

    -Serpent Slither: besides being swimmers the Rahabim looked like snakes so I thought one of there abilities could be the power to contort themselves to fit into small crevices that other classes couldn't get into and wait there to ambush . when a human comes close they can leap out in ambush and attack. This would mean humans would have to be careful around areas they know Rahabim can ambush from. Its more like a trap class than a stealth class and I feel it fits Rahabs Passive methods. Alchemist can burn them out of there hidey holes if they know where to look.

    = Snake Charm: -- For some reason when i think of the Rahabim I get this idea of hypnotic powers in their eyest=. I know there is no real Lore to support anything close to this but there's nothing that says they didn't have powers like that and Kain had some hypnotic abilities in BO. the lore excuse could be Raziel being a wraith was immune to it. They can use it to make illusions of fellow vampires to confuse the enemy and to distort the vision of hunters lowering their accurcay. it would be a very interesting support class in my opinion.


    - Anyone else got an idea for what they could do.
    -
    In regards to your first idea, it sounds far too much like the ideas jumping around for Melchiahs brood about digging underground and waiting for an ambush
    which I feel is better since you can dig almost anywhere, rather than hide in crevices, in which these spots will be known once you get a feel for the map.

    As to the second idea, the lowering accuracy part would be very over-powered and frustrating to play against, I mean imagine you are playing a human, and shooting your crossbow, and even though you have the cursor/reticle on the enemy, you still miss even though s/he didn't move.
    Don't like the idea of lowered accuracy at all, especially in a game where you have to aim, shoot, hope your connection is stable and your ping isn't high etc etc.

    Frankly I think Rahabim are probably the most difficult to implement lore-wise, as they were the most sensitive to sunlight.

    Exploiting Nosgoth's waterways, the Rahabim had the potential to be the most widespread of the clans, but a drawback of their evolution prevented it: the clan could not tolerate sunlight. They could only survive Nosgoth's weak daylight if they were sheltered by a roof or submerged underwater. Even the adults would burst into flames if exposed to it
    Now I know that the game is set prior to these major evolutions taking place, so Psyonix could make something happen here.

  3. #3
    I mentioned in another thread, Electric Eel Shock, Shark Jaws or Dislicating Snake Jaws (that means opening insanely wide, not split like Zephon), Poison/Acid Spray or Octopus Ink (mix'n'matching aquatic creatures, but what's wrong with that) and just now I thought of a blinding flash like some glowing fish (yes, those exist) might do.

    Apologies is other people have mentioned any of those. I just wanted to make sure they didn't get left out.

    EDIT: Oh, and some sort of sticky goo, like a hagfish makes.
    EDIT 2: Oh, and I forgot to mention a leech ability, because of their SR1 codename Aluka.
    Last edited by Vampmaster; 12th Dec 2013 at 20:58.

  4. #4
    I don't want to tear down your ideas, but there are some drawbacks to the suggestions the OP has made

    1. Building little areas for only Rahabim to go to would take too much time from the devs and begs to question why don't they just create bodies of water everywhere instead, or create rain cycles on the map just to accommodate for one class.

    2. Mind control or loosing control of your character is something that gamers usually hate with passion in games as it leaves very little room for counterplay. Having an illusion or a decoy effect is very hard to pull of, since players are gonna be able to tell the difference between a player controlling a character and an NPC. Also if too well done, then people may end up confused and think that its lag.

    Sorry for throwing a monkey wrench at your ideas, I admit thinking of non-water based ideas for Rahab is kinda hard. May I suggest a ranged attack perhaps? Like spitting acid or something in those lines. Since the Rahabim were very lizard like and in LoK Cinematic Rahab, had scale like features.

    They could also have movement speed boost of some kind.
    Scales also could provide some more of a damage resistance.
    They could also perform a scream of sorts to disrupt opponents or knock them back.
    Have them be female vampires to add a gimmick (not always a bad thing)
    They could temporarily turn invisible, because..... emm... The Predator and Reptile (Mortal Kombat)
    Acid spit again.
    Throw a Trident and impale people on walls.
    ....
    ....
    Summon Aquaman

  5. #5
    I think if the Rahabim are going to spit any sort of liquid of chemical, it should be more of a short range spray than a projectile which would go against the asymmetrical gameplay that Se have talked about.

  6. #6
    Originally Posted by Badmojoman
    I don't want to tear down your ideas, but there are some drawbacks to the suggestions the OP has made

    1. Building little areas for only Rahabim to go to would take too much time from the devs and begs to question why don't they just create bodies of water everywhere instead, or create rain cycles on the map just to accommodate for one class.

    2. Mind control or loosing control of your character is something that gamers usually hate with passion in games as it leaves very little room for counterplay. Having an illusion or a decoy effect is very hard to pull of, since players are gonna be able to tell the difference between a player controlling a character and an NPC. Also if too well done, then people may end up confused and think that its lag.

    Sorry for throwing a monkey wrench at your ideas, I admit thinking of non-water based ideas for Rahab is kinda hard. May I suggest a ranged attack perhaps? Like spitting acid or something in those lines. Since the Rahabim were very lizard like and in LoK Cinematic Rahab, had scale like features.

    They could also have movement speed boost of some kind.
    Scales also could provide some more of a damage resistance.
    They could also perform a scream of sorts to disrupt opponents or knock them back.
    Have them be female vampires to add a gimmick (not always a bad thing)
    They could temporarily turn invisible, because..... emm... The Predator and Reptile (Mortal Kombat)
    Acid spit again.
    Throw a Trident and impale people on walls.
    ....
    ....
    Summon Aquaman
    haha, no offense taken, I can see how players would get frustrated constantly getting their vision screwed with, and decoys tend to be a tad obvious, still I feel misdirection support really fits up with Rahabs Alley so perhaps something different like a
    Mist cloud would work better. mist related powers are used in LoK plenty from Kains mist form to the spell used to hide the Ancient citadel. So how bout a ritual where a Rahabim summons a fog on to the map that vampires can see through better than humans and killing the Rahabim would clear the mist.

  7. #7
    Originally Posted by Umbralim
    haha, no offense taken, I can see how players would get frustrated constantly getting their vision screwed with, and decoys tend to be a tad obvious, still I feel misdirection support really fits up with Rahabs Alley so perhaps something different like a
    Mist cloud would work better. mist related powers are used in LoK plenty from Kains mist form to the spell used to hide the Ancient citadel. So how bout a ritual where a Rahabim summons a fog on to the map that vampires can see through better than humans and killing the Rahabim would clear the mist.
    Mist/fog, would definitely make sense. Rahabims whole thing was that they overcame one of their big environmental hazards and then completely got defined by it. So giving them anything that, isn't water related feels like missing the mark. However it would have to avoid the Aquaman pitfall where they summon fish on dry land or just summon a lame water elemental or something.

    It is difficult to even think of a cool looking theme for them, without them just looking like fish-people or snake-people.

  8. #8
    Originally Posted by Badmojoman
    Mist/fog, would definitely make sense. Rahabims whole thing was that they overcame one of their big environmental hazards and then completely got defined by it. So giving them anything that, isn't water related feels like missing the mark. However it would have to avoid the Aquaman pitfall where they summon fish on dry land or just summon a lame water elemental or something.

    It is difficult to even think of a cool looking theme for them, without them just looking like fish-people or snake-people.
    I don't think fish/snake scales would look that bad as long as it was kept subtle, but if you're looking for an alternative, what about giving them shark skin or stingray type patterns?

    I just googled some stingray pictures and they have some interesting colours and patterns without being your typical scaly fish.

    EDIT: This isn't what I meant, but I thought it was funny http://www.clipartof.com/portfolio/djholmes/illustration/peaceful-stingray-smiling-and-gesturing-the-peace-sign-37141.html
    Last edited by Vampmaster; 16th Dec 2013 at 22:42.

  9. #9
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    Forced-Drownings as part of melee. Uh, how about them having the reverse of Lifeguard CPR as their weapon---an ability to put water into the lungs of someone they latch onto???!!!!!! That'd be murder-fish nasty, right? And I don't know how melee works in this game but being extra slippery could be an advantage for the Rahabs when wrastling or evading human grab attacks. Um, also, if anyone is using a flame thrower against them, the Rahab would have a couple extra seconds of moisture in them to resist the burning effects, and the human might be stunned for a second too by how tasty the air smells after he starts frying that fish-vamp. There should be occasional flowing water gates and defenses built in to the environments, and that's where other vamps would hesitate while the Rab's rush right through and get a morale boost.

  10. #10
    Originally Posted by Vampmaster
    I don't think fish/snake scales would look that bad as long as it was kept subtle, but if you're looking for an alternative, what about giving them shark skin or stingray type patterns?

    I just googled some stingray pictures and they have some interesting colours and patterns without being your typical scaly fish.

    EDIT: This isn't what I meant, but I thought it was funny http://www.clipartof.com/portfolio/d...ign-37141.html
    Yeah, that's not a bad idea at all... reminds me of street sharks. These things were awesome and vampires and sharks already have the fangs thing in common. So that would be pretty awesome.

  11. #11
    perhaps the Rahabim, can get an advantage/drawback mechanic. For instance, they have superior sensory abilities. Dont know how it would be implimented, but there must be a way to figure out what the humans are doing without even being that close (Like smell or enhanced hearing). The drawback could be that they cant expose themselves to areas without shade.

    I also like the idea of Rahabim having the ability to travel through tighter spaces that other people cannot access, and having a range of support abilities, that just disorient and confuse their human opponents (Such as sounds that distract them from an attack comming from another angle), as well as relaying important info to their teammates.

    I also kicked around the thought of each map having some sort of water system that allows the Rahabim to get around the map unharassed and unseen. Sure the Melchia's clan can burrow, but they may not have the ability just to completely circumvent human defenses undetected as easily as the Rahabim. Something else that may be cool are bodies of water that the Dumahim could jump down and knock the vampire hunters into, and as they fall into the water they find themselves victim of a feeding frenzy.

    I know these ideas might not work out so well, and implimenting water into every map is pretty demanding, so tell me waht you think.

  12. #12
    What about summoning water beneath their feet to launch them into the air? Or maybe they leave a wake (water trail like a speedboat) behind them when running that would knock over enemies. They could sort of skate around on it.
    Last edited by Vampmaster; 20th Dec 2013 at 10:18.

  13. #13
    What if after a certain period of time it starts raining on the map. Putting all other vampires on the defensive and allowing the humans to go on the offensive, but the Rahabim would be the only ones who get a benefit from the rain and the would become the apex predator during this time.

    This would be a little simpler to implement then changing the map layout to support bodies of water, but would probably mess about with the dynamic of the game and balance too much probably.

  14. #14
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    Rain! It's definitely part of that murky world. Actually, I'd like to see how vampires dealt with it to avoid massive casualties every single time it rained. They must have had a duck & cover school for the fledglings to prepare them to get to safety at a moment's notice, but also their roads would have needed regularly spaced hidey holes with overhanging roofs for the adults too, the same way we have covered bus stations & roadside gas stations every so often, etc. Locals would have known where the caves were, but the empire would need a way to look out for the safety of traveling vampires who didn't know the lay of the land. Some kind of sign system? Or they'd scent out the safety of dank places with their noses? So maybe a universally known scent marker would be placed at the mouth of every cave, and Nosgoth just happened to have no shortage of holes in the ground? But also, wouldn't rain water run into those holes in the ground!!!??? So..... Ha! What if there were a bunch of those egyptian themed spider-woven tents to take shelter in, like the one we saw in the Silenced Cathedral that contained a power-up after you solved the puzzle so it's tent flaps opened up.
    Last edited by diuqSehT; 21st Dec 2013 at 00:12.

  15. #15
    Another thought is about a redesign of the Turelim and the Dumahim. First off, turn what is currently the Turelhim, and make them Dumahim, it just makes more sense, perhaps make them a bit more slimmed down. Next, make the Turelim, still a bulky class, but more slender, with a vshaped torso, and have that class more focused on telekenesis. Once this change has been made, you can focus on the Rahabim being the stealthy "in the shadows class" And give them mist abilities, as well as superior flexibility and manueverability, and serpent like qualities. How does that sound to everyone else?

  16. #16
    i think everyone is forgetting that it was dumah who was huge,not his fledgelings,they were the smallest but got quite challenging later on when they grouped on you,turelim being the biggest ones is completely accurate however i thought something a way to appeal to everyone=As you level up there are cutscenes AC3 style,where your vampires evolve different features,first their finger,then their ears,and after these their unique devolutions-turelim would bet slimmer with its ears getting bigger,dumahim would get the dark skin and the tongue ect ect. so it should be really cool to see just an idea because people seem to forgett how big the turelim were and how huge turel himself was.

  17. #17
    http://static2.wikia.nocookie.net/__...-Intro-182.png
    http://lparchive.org/Legacy-of-Kain-...2011/dumah.jpg
    http://static2.wikia.nocookie.net/__...el-Concept.jpg

    As you can see from these pictures, Dumah is twice the size of Raziel and Turel is three or four times the size of Raziel. Before devolution they're roughly the same size. Turel is actually stood further away, so he might be slightly talker even then.
    Last edited by Vampmaster; 21st Dec 2013 at 09:52.

  18. #18
    Originally Posted by diuqSehT
    Rain! It's definitely part of that murky world. Actually, I'd like to see how vampires dealt with it to avoid massive casualties every single time it rained. They must have had a duck & cover school for the fledglings to prepare them to get to safety at a moment's notice, but also their roads would have needed regularly spaced hidey holes with overhanging roofs for the adults too, the same way we have covered bus stations & roadside gas stations every so often, etc. Locals would have known where the caves were, but the empire would need a way to look out for the safety of traveling vampires who didn't know the lay of the land. Some kind of sign system? Or they'd scent out the safety of dank places with their noses? So maybe a universally known scent marker would be placed at the mouth of every cave, and Nosgoth just happened to have no shortage of holes in the ground? But also, wouldn't rain water run into those holes in the ground!!!??? So..... Ha! What if there were a bunch of those egyptian themed spider-woven tents to take shelter in, like the one we saw in the Silenced Cathedral that contained a power-up after you solved the puzzle so it's tent flaps opened up.
    I love Badmo's idea of rain and having cover for the vamps is a good idea, but in the current era, it'd get vamps killed more often than help. Like DiuSeht said, they could have huts or caves to hide in, but then all the humans have to do is find said cave and fire inside the whole time it rains. The grenades alone would wipe out all the vamps, unless we gave them cave systems to travel through, in which case why would vamps do anything but run around in the caves? They would never chance the rain and make the whole idea pointless. To add to that, what human would be stupid enough to run into a cave system full of vamps? It'd become a CoD campfest, and if you've played CoD, you know how tedious, boring, time-consuming, and flat out f*&^$%g stupid that can be. Not to say it's a bad idea, honestly. Sorry if I sound like a downer, cause I LOVE the idea of rain in-game. I just see ALOT of new players or even lazy ones being cheap and abusing the crap out of this. ESPECIALLY if the rain runs inside and collects within. All humans have to do is literally wait for the vamps to come out, or simply let them burn.

  19. #19
    I was thinking that maybe another good water route or source for the Rahabim could be aquaducts built by the humans. As the humans began to gain power, perhaps they build a network of aquaducts, not just to bring water to their cities, but offensively so they can bring it to the battlefield and have a convenient source of what is effectively acid, against the vampires. But this eventually worked to their disadvantage, backfiring on them when the Rahabim started using them as a quick way to get around undetected. Like snakes in a sewer, they now infest their water system, and pop out in areas other people do not have access to.

    well remember that even when Kain was a young vampire in blood omen, all rain did was weaken you a bit and caused your health to drain slightly faster, but it wasnt even close to instadeath. So i would say the rain would be a minor hinderance.
    Last edited by Bazielim; 30th Apr 2014 at 12:54. Reason: double posting, please use the 'edit' function, thanks

  20. #20
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    Good reminder about the "ouch!" effect of rain on even 1 day old Kain.
    And those aquaducts would be a great addition to the landscape because they'd be a longterm fixture you could time travel to see in their various states of repair, first as a plus for mankind and then as a drawback. It'd fit in with the squirming feeling of how everything else falls apart and gets twisted from its original purpose.

  21. #21
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    Loving some of the Rahabim ideas but I think the powers have to be universal in that not specific to having to be in or near a water area.

    Lol yeah Kain was okay until in BO2 and you stood him in a puddle - but if you moved on he'd be okay - was only if you felt in a cruel mood and left him there he'd die...

  22. #22
    well its hard to call, if i had to design all of the races myself, Razielim, would stay the swooping creatures that they are, Dumahim would be standard, direct combat warriors, Turelim would be another tough opponent that also filled a ranged roll with telekenesis, the Melchiahim would be an ambush type vampire, that i would say gained more benifiets from feeding off of people (To perhaps defense and strength) but said strength would depend on how often they kill, The Zephonim, would be focused on ambush as well, but would be able to climb along the walls (kind of like an alien from natural selection, not that we would want to look to other games for ideas), and finally i would think that The Rahabim could be focused on more of a support rule.

    It would be neat to have a class that toys with their enemies, by playing with their perceptions, making the humans think they are hearing an incoming attack to keep them guessing. I myself would find it quite satisfying to use the humans paranoia against them and keep a group of people that outnumber me occupied with misdirections until tha cavalry arrives. I really also think that serpantine flexibility and stealthiness should also play a role with the Rahabim.

  23. #23
    The rain ideea is interesting...if u were playing on a battlegrond like a city the vamps could get shelter in the houses...so that shouldn't be a problem,and if the battleground was let's say a forest a small cave should work...if the rabahim have a mist cloud abiliti they could fill the cave with it so that the hunters can't shoot them from the distance (the vams should see in the fog)...the zephonim could barricade the enterance with web and after the flamethrowers come close to burn it down,after they burn it the rahabim could pull them in the cave with some pull abiliti.As for the grenades sience the vamps could see trough the fog they could just keep their distance from them till they explode.

    I think the Rahabim should be more like a spellcaster class but also a little better than the Zephonim and Melchiam on melle.

  24. #24
    Originally Posted by Shehadi703
    well remember that even when Kain was a young vampire in blood omen, all rain did was weaken you a bit and caused your health to drain slightly faster, but it wasnt even close to instadeath. So i would say the rain would be a minor hinderance.
    The rain would definitely NOT be instadeath. If it was so effective that you had to hole up and hide, then it would be terrible design, simply because it halts gameplay and makes everyone camp.

    Instead the rain should be incentive to place humans on the offensive and make the vampires play more carefully. The gameplay balance would be maintained by the Rahabim becoming slightly more aggressive and powerful.

    You could even have a timer on it so you could plan for an counter attack when the rain starts. It would also remove any stalemates as vampires loose health SLOWLY, making them more desperate to kill people. While humans have a slight advantage making them go on the offensive.

    The rain could be used to place a match on "overtime" making sure there is a definite winner etc.

  25. #25
    I think if rain or any other map-wide enviromental damage is included, there shouldn't be any class based entirely around it. It would suck (in the non-blood way) to have only one or two maps that the Rahabim are any good in if they're completely useless everywhere else. By all means, give them customisable abilities for that, but they should have other options or they'd just be going to waste.

    I am in favour of mid-match events though. It could work like power plays and the sandstorms in Uncharted 3, where if one team is losing, some event happens where they get to even the odds.

    In regards to vampires having ranged attacks and humans having melee, how about making that kind of thing a kind power weapon? To keep the asymmetrical gameplay intact, there could be spears or TK relics littered through out the level that you could only use for one or two strikes before they break. They would act as some sort of extenuating circumstances where yoiu could break the normal rules.

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