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Thread: Why Blood Omen 2 is a good LoK title

  1. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Razielhunter View Post
    Sorry to be the badass in the situation but a 9 out of 10 in Blood Omen 2..... apart from the story and the music the gameplay wasn´t good... The guard button can get through anything....

    I currently playing the last game of the series for me(BO1) and i like it way better than BO2 its more fun and original... Basically maybe because i like old styled games... somehow it reminds me of Alundra 1. Voices are perfect and it has fun...

    As i said 9 out of 10 its to much.... Then the I must give the Soul Reaver 1 a 20/10... :P . I loved that game...
    Well maybe I am in a minority here, but I found the gameplay to be pretty fun actually. The dodging blocked any regular attacks, and it was a pretty intense & fun fight when against multiple enemies, blocking, dodging, and getting the rage bar up, then you could use Fury or once you beat Sebastain, Berserk. Some of the action didn't feel quite as fluent as what I have felt with Soul Reaver, but it was cool anyway. I still stick with my 9/10, as I just played and beat the game yesterday and it is still fresh on my mind too.

  2. #77
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    Pressing the arrow and the space... am i correct?
    I had to think about that for a moment. Oh yeah, keyboard controls I use a gampepad when playing these games on PC. Yeah, the jump button while moving in a direction, basically, right or left. If you move forward, or back, not going to do much but get you killed. Ha.

    Well maybe I am in a minority here, but I found the gameplay to be pretty fun actually
    Yup, I enjoy the gameplay a lot, myself

  3. #78
    The Hylden
    I had to think about that for a moment. Oh yeah, keyboard controls I use a gampepad when playing these games on PC. Yeah, the jump button while moving in a direction, basically, right or left. If you move forward, or back, not going to do much but get you killed. Ha.
    heh heh it funny you'd mentioned that ^.^
    (i have the Playstation version) because you can actually dodge some Red Attacks (and nearly all of the normal ones) by just walking backwards - it's great because they can't move when they attack so you can just shuffle backwards out of the way ^.0
    Legacy of Kain: Legion - the Battle has been fought, but the War has just begun!

  4. #79
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    I never thought of just backing up to avoid those red attacks...
    I really liked the gameplay. I thought it was a lot of fun how they implemented the Dark Gifts. I actually wish I could play another game just like it, like just the same sort of game, but a new one, like a mod or something, though I don't have it on computer. The only thing I really didn't like about the controls is that the turning is too slow. Sometimes there'd be a few enemies running at me, and I'd want to run back to some mist or something to stealth kill them, or some similar situation, and turning around would take too long and they'd get some hits in on me. That's really the only complaint about the gameplay I have. And I loved how they put all that dark humor into the game, which was also something I really liked in the original Blood Omen.

  5. #80
    I just didn't think the gameplay was all that great when considering all the spells and items you got in Blood Omen... i mean, how could you forget an item like Flay... seriously... or Implode, or the Font of Putrescence... the spells Spirit Wrack or Lighting... sure the actual physical combat in Blood Omen 2 was ok, and the story itself was excellent, just like the other four games, but Blood Omen 2 just did not have that special extra awesomness that was Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain! It didn't even have the awesome item quotes anymore... :/

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIjUQbwxpdE

  6. #81
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    I just found this at The Lost Worlds:
    "While is is certainly a departure in many ways from the rest of the series, I felt that it was worked into the story very well by the Soul Reaver 2 and Defiance teams. Although I'm sure some of them initially were frustrated to account for things like Janos and the Hylden, the result was excellent."

    So if I understand this correctly, the Hylden were a story element introduced by the Blood Omen 2 team? BLincoln, are you reading this? Could you explain this statement a bit more? I'd say that would certainly change how most people think of how that game fits into the story if one of the biggest story elements of the series was actually introduced because of BO2.
    Source: http://www.thelostworlds.net/BO2/Chakan_and_Sirens.html

  7. #82
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    No, it's pretty common a criticism that actually the Hylden were introduced via this game and that their race, being more sci-fi/alien-like, doesn't really fit with the motif of Nosgoth. Not to mention, there's still the lingering criticisms of Janos, Vorador especially, and how Kain's coma is handled. I love Bo2, but it is a bit off,comparatively. I think the history of the Hylden is saved because of the expansion in SR2 and Defiance, but BO2 alone is a bit out there when you look at what came before it.

  8. #83
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    Yeah, I also read the old topic from when Ben found out about Chakan and read the description of the game from that site. That game would have been awesome from how it was described, though I wonder just how much they could really succeed in actually putting in the game. I'd love to see someone take that concept of hunting down creatures that would rip you to shreds in a straight up fight, and having to observe them, find their weaknesses, and then plan an attack that exploits that, and how it talks about how you have to pay attention to everything in the environment around you so you don't get ambushed by some horrible monster.

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    As I wrote in the Defiance forum, whilst BO2 had a lot of things wrong with it that make it seem like the "black sheep of LoK", there were a number of issues it adressed really well, when compared to Soul Reaver 2.

    Firstly, it had real atmosphere. What do I mean by that? I mean the world of BO2 was alive, It did not revolve around Kain/Raziel, it would have existed with or without them. The original BO had this. SR 1 had a world that was collapsing around Raziel, but it would have done so regardless. SR2's big flaw was that the gameworld literally consisted of you, and various enemies. the only NPC were the big players, there to move the story along. and they'd only be there in cutscenes.
    Any future LoK titles should capitalize on this, I feel, making the gameworld more interactive, Ideally bringing in the open-world explorability of SR1 with the densely populated world of the Blood Omen titles. While I'm not asking for an RPG-level of conversations and such (although that would be cool, too), but a certain level of interactivity in environment would go a long way to attracting new interest to the series.

    Secondly, the setting.
    BO2 was set some 200 years after BO1. in BO1, we saw the earliest forms of machinery, mining equipment, and some basic scienc-y stuff in Dark Eden labs. BO2 took us to a steampunk-ish world where steam was king, and every piece of machinery was clunky, huge and inefficient. and, hey, it was consistent with it! Setting-wise, my favourite levels in the entire game would be The INdustrial Quarter, and the Canyons because they showcased just how far Nosgoth's tech advanced, and exactly what its limitations were. This is another strong point that I hope any sequel will pick up on--time travel as a plot device gives the writers a lot of creative freedom and in the next title I'd like to see time travel provide us different times in Nosgoth's history with totally different settings--i.e., the Nosgoth of the Ancients should have one theme/architectural style, the Hylden Dimension should be totally different, the Nosgoth of Humans should be different, depending on the era it's set in, etc. I don't want another SR where I'm visiting the same keep 4 times in 3 different time periods and the only real change is whether or not the glass work is in yet or not. or Ushtenheim that doesn't change AT ALL--come on, you'd think in over 500 years there'd be at least one new building or something.

    also, combat.
    BO2 combat was intuitive and for novices of action/adventure (i.e, me--I'm not a console gamer and I stick with RTS.RPG genre on the PC. I only got into LoK because of BO1) it was very easy to master and enjoy. the fighting system had a lot of eye candy, and compared to the same SR2, even the kill animations were done better. not to mention the various options when it came to weapons, and the range of enemies. Defiance did this too, to an extent, but I really hated teh parts of Defiance where you are locked in a "force field"and have to kill everyone for it to dissipate. BO2 avoided this,, and at the same time it kept the action flowing nicely. most of Kain's mechanics in Defiance were adaptations from BO2 (with the nice nod to Bat form from BO1), and they worked great. mind-control provided for possibilities, too--if the sequel lets us mind-control enemies to fight for us, with enemies having abilities they can use against us and we can turn onto their allies.... damn, I start salivating just thinking about it.

    now, from all the things above it may seem like i'm bashing other games in favour of BO2. I'm not. LoK is still one of my favourite game plots of all time, and nothing will change that. SR2 was all about plot, we all know that. BO2's plot was weaker, no one would deny that. it was a spinoff, and one that really felt tacked onto the main story, which by then, to many, became "Raziel's story". I can understand that.

    but at this point, Raziel is done. those of us who want sequels, have to admit that the last game will be all about Kain. So we should look into what can we do to make KAIN interested to those who have never played SR, how can we make the project interesting enough for Square Enix to agree to pour money into making it, in hopes of attracting a brand-new fanbase. And, like it or not, aside from the plot (which is what us diehards want), BO2 offers a lot more GAMEPLAY improvement possibilities than SR2/Defiance did.

  10. #85
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    Not disagreeing with you, just adding this:

    BO2 isn't the first to introduce steam-based technology. SR1 had it as well in all of the clan territories. Melchiah's underground chambers; the Silenced Cathedral is basically one big steam-powered machine. Dumah's lair had that giant furnace which powered everything (and charred his bacon ). The Human Citadel; the Light Houses where you find the Light Glyph -- I think Rahab's lair was too sunken in water to know really if they once had working steam-tech there, but yeah, it's there in SR1.

    So, BO2 was consistent, to a point, by utilizing this. However, they made a distinction in the plot to why there's so much more of it and the tech is so alien. It's actually enhanced and evolved by the Glyph Magic power sources in everything. Hylden magic and technology, which really didn't need steam, basically enhanced the stuff Nosgoth probably had evolved to on its own and then you have giant Glyph factories and huge crazy machines doing everything. Given where it ends up in SR1, one can assume that the timeline had some form of steam-powered industrial revolution in Nosgoth by this time, but this change along the timeline is the reason for even more of it, and more foreign technology than we might have seen otherwise. You get to the Hylden city and it's all floaty platforms, beam weaponry and mining lasers, and holographic control panels, etc. So, Glyph Magic can do great things, for sure. Though, we assume that, with Kain sending all of the Hylden back to the Demon Realm at the end of the game, all of their Glyph Magic no longer is working to power a lot of the tech, so it probably went back to what it had been before it was introduced (exemplified by the creators stating SR1 is supposed to still happen just the same way as before the paradox that introduces BO2).

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    Very true, and that`s another reason to add love to original SR,

    what i`d really like to see in the next installment is the world where Hylden Dimension looks all hi-tech in a dying wasteland, the Ancients have Calssical-architecture type setting and the post-BO1 human Nosgoth continues to involve mechanically.

    I think it`s also telling that after the destruction of the circle we don`t really see any `traditional`` sorcery in BO2--as if `the age of magic`` is done, so to speak.

    another point, since we`re on the topic of settings:
    I`ve thoroughly enjoyed the 4 forges of SR2, in fact they were some of the best-designed levels, imo.
    but at the same time, you see Dark Forge and you`re thinking `Europe at the beginning of Enlightement, weith Copernicus and Galileo`, you go Light forge and you think "Ancient Mesopotamia or India", you hit up Air forge and all I can think of are Aztecs...and then Janos' retread and fire forge is straight up Germanic Wagner-style castles. While it's all very cool and pleasing to the eye, it leaves me confused as hell as to just what to make of the Ancients. I'd like the next game to feature a part where Kain gets to witness the war with Hylden, but i'm lost in though as to which setting should be chosen for that.

    And I do want to see more of BO2 steampunk and interacton with random people who aren't all just enemies and/or walking bloodbags.

  12. #87
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    Maybe different construction teams were involved with each Forge. I different human cultures can produce so many styles of architecture, there could be several Ancient styles.

    The gameplay reason for the variation is that the gamer would get sick of the same kind of forge over and over again.
    I'd be apathetic if I weren't so lethargic-Peter Griffin

  13. #88
    BO2's designers specifically invented the Glyph magic to try and explain the steampunk elements that seeped into the series with SR1. It was only later when the Soul Reaver team declared BO2 an alternate history that the whole Hylden tech explanation was nullified. So we still have no idea where the industrial stuff came from in the old timelines...

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by dumah's wraith View Post
    The gameplay reason for the variation is that the gamer would get sick of the same kind of forge over and over again.
    Kinda' like Defiance and the vampire Citadel? lol And excellent point about the Ancients having multiple different cultures within their species.

    And yeah, like I said: before the shift in BO2, the tech probably occurred more modestly and gradually, and might have even gone back to this point once the Hylden were removed by Kain. Once they were gone, all of their Glyph Tech should have stopped working, as well.

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    true, but I'm sure Humans would have found something.

    I mean, Glyph tech didn't power everything, even in BO2. its main use was to block vampires from passing various parts of the city. that was the only true "magical" thing about it.

    everywhere else, it was used simply as power source. Since steam engine was used alongside it, i'm sure humans would've found a replacement power source.
    plus, all those huge cars we see in the Canyons don't appear to have used glyphs for power.

  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Escaton View Post
    BO2's designers specifically invented the Glyph magic to try and explain the steampunk elements that seeped into the series with SR1. It was only later when the Soul Reaver team declared BO2 an alternate history that the whole Hylden tech explanation was nullified. So we still have no idea where the industrial stuff came from in the old timelines...
    Why do they need to explain the steampunk elements? It's roughly 2000 years from BO1 to SR1. How much has our world changed in that time? The only reason that there's no machine guns in SR1 is that Kain's empire left the humans too concerned with survival to innovate, and the vampires don't want to change a world that's utterly in their control. People invent things over time, unless their lives are too unstable to think beyond the day to day survival.

    After BO2, Kain's new army probably wanted to destroy everything that reminded them of the Sarafan. Thus all the new tech, whether its glyph magic or not, is destroyed, like when the barbarians destroyed Rome. According to the SR1 manual, once the major human kingdoms fell, Kain's empire began 'shaping nosgoth to our will'. Unless something is useful to them, like the smokestacks, they destroy it. Kain is probably most comfortable with BO1 era tech. War destroys things. You need a certain amount of stability to innovate.
    I'd be apathetic if I weren't so lethargic-Peter Griffin

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    you see, that's exactly why I would absolutely hate for them to abandon the time-travel mechanic--it presents the developers with so many options. I'm resigned to the fact that the only likely way that LoK will ever get back on the shelves is through a major makover, possibly even genre change, so if they want to try to attract new interest to the series, they should actively promote the time-travel aspect and the various settings the player may discover in each time period.

    I mean, it would also give us a chance to learn more about Nosgoth in various parts of its history.
    I'd definitely hope that SE would consider that. But then again, i'd like to see the next LoK franchise be story-driven, but with an explorable world and characters I could interact with instead of just hacking them down for blood, so I may not be the most rational one here.

  18. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by kud13 View Post
    But then again, i'd like to see the next LoK franchise be story-driven, but with an explorable world and characters I could interact with instead of just hacking them down for blood, so I may not be the most rational one here.

    Actually I completely agree with that. Well, I wouldn't want an Elder Scrolls style interactivity with characters, but more along the lines of how it felt in Blood Omen 2, though maybe a bit deeper.

  19. #94
    I shouldn't probably be posting here because everyone knows how much I “like” BO2. So for a change I will try to keep it as positive as possible and start by listing things that I think that the game has actually done right. I promised a “what was wrong with BO2” essay once a new game is announced, but that will obviously have to wait .


    The best part in my opinion were the dark gifts, mist form being my favourite. The possibility to perform stealth kills (with two different animations for each weapon) for me was probably the most enjoyable part of the game. I found it disappointing that Defiance completely avoided stealth mechanics (Raziel's dark reaver spell was screaming for some proper stealth system).

    The other dark gifts also fitted into the gameplay, some also having uses in both combat and “puzzles”. While I didn't like the idea of “segmenting” the boss fights, I liked the idea that all gifts were proved necessary in these fights at some point.

    About the combat system – I generally disliked it, but I have to congratulate the team for actually trying something different. While I wasn't impressed with the final result (I will list my main complaints later), I still have respect for them for not following a set path. And decapitating enemies with a single swing was really enjoyable.

    From artistic point of view I actually really liked most of Meridian levels (I particularly enjoyed the Higher City). But I still think that the only reason why Crystal Dynamics didn't have to deal with lawsuits from Looking Glass was because both Thief and LoK were published by Eidos (I mean both setting and main plot line of Thief 2).

    And at the risk of sounding childish I will say that another thing that BO2 got right was the gore. While not as good as in BO1 it still provided some variety with beheading, throat slithing and heart ripping (although the neck breaking animation was hilarious).

    Quote Originally Posted by kud13 View Post
    Firstly, it had real atmosphere. What do I mean by that? I mean the world of BO2 was alive, It did not revolve around Kain/Raziel, it would have existed with or without them. The original BO had this. SR 1 had a world that was collapsing around Raziel, but it would have done so regardless. SR2's big flaw was that the gameworld literally consisted of you, and various enemies. the only NPC were the big players, there to move the story along. and they'd only be there in cutscenes.
    I agree that BO2 did a good job in this area. But I also have to defend SR2 here. How would this living world element be implemented?
    You see a blue demon like creature. Do you:
    a) try to kill it with whatever means you have at your disposal
    b) run as fast and as far away as possible
    c) talk to the creature about high taxes and current events
    I find the third option rather unlikely . It would be really hard to put this element into the game in a convincing way in my opinion.
    Any future LoK titles should capitalize on this, I feel, making the gameworld more interactive, Ideally bringing in the open-world explorability of SR1 with the densely populated world of the Blood Omen titles. While I'm not asking for an RPG-level of conversations and such (although that would be cool, too), but a certain level of interactivity in environment would go a long way to attracting new interest to the series.
    While I would also love to see more interaction with the world I'm afraid that implementing them in a future game may also be difficult. First of all – we all expect that if such game is eventually made, then we would be playing as elder Kain. At that point Kain is a millennia old vampire god. He was always arrogant, but in this state talking to mere mortals would be a blow to his dignity.
    As I said – I would really like such mechanic, but unless we get a remake of BO1, retrospective scenes in the game or a spin-off with actual vampire cities, then I don't expect Kain to have a conversation with anyone besides the “big players”.
    The thing that however can be done are written sources (I really liked when they were mentioned in BO1 - books in Wilendorf Library and Vorador’s Mansion).
    I don't want another SR where I'm visiting the same keep 4 times in 3 different time periods and the only real change is whether or not the glass work is in yet or not. or Ushtenheim that doesn't change AT ALL--come on, you'd think in over 500 years there'd be at least one new building or something.
    I will write about the settings later, but to comment on this part - In general I agree about Ushtenheim. While I think that general architectural style should remain more or less the same (with some possible “improvements”), the fact that the town didn't change at all was really unconvincing. I can't however agree about the stronghold, (or all “ancient” sites in general). Look at the Pyramid of Khufu – built around 2680-2565 BC – it still stands to this day. The construction of King's College Chapel took place in years 1446-1515 – it still stands to this day. Sagrada Familia is being built since 1882, and unless some disaster happens – it will be still standing in 2500. The changes to such monumental buildings don't happen that often. Off course not always a building will remain unchanged for the whole time (Lincoln Cathedral being a good example, but the changes were in most cases a result of all sorts of natural disasters and the necessity of repairing the damage).

    In short – I'm just trying to say that unless a building of that magnitude suffers some serious damage then it will (or rather - should) look really similar a few centuries later.

    For the record – I disliked the fact that in SR1 Kain's appearance didn't change at all between the intro and the game (he could at least change his pants in that few centuries ).
    also, combat.
    BO2 combat was intuitive and for novices of action/adventure (i.e, me--I'm not a console gamer and I stick with RTS.RPG genre on the PC. I only got into LoK because of BO1) it was very easy to master and enjoy.
    That's another part I can't agree with. Of all LoK games BO2 system was the most luck dependant one. I'm referring to unblockable attacks (yes, I know you could dodge these) that the enemies could perform whenever they wanted. And they were invulnerable while performing it.
    I have experienced one particular scenario far too many times: just after I start a combo with a heavy (and slow) weapon, the enemy decides to perform a critical attack. It can be a “little” annoying.
    All other games were purely skill based (maybe with the exception of some "lost" projectiles in Defiance). You saw the attack and you had the means to counter it.
    the fighting system had a lot of eye candy, and compared to the same SR2, even the kill animations were done better. not to mention the various options when it came to weapons, and the range of enemies.
    While I appreciated the fact that there actually has been a “real” blocking animation, in general I think that SR2 animations were much better (Raziel breaking demons' necks was priceless ). And there wasn't any real difference between the weapons besides a little different animations. The only real difference was the ability to decapitate with a “heavy” weapon.
    The other problem I had was the (literal) hand to hand combat. Hylden not using any weapons on blocking sword strikes with their bare hands looked like taken from some cheap kung-fu movie.
    LoK is still one of my favourite game plots of all time, and nothing will change that. SR2 was all about plot, we all know that. BO2's plot was weaker, no one would deny that.
    It may be a good place to ask this. I often hear an argument in defense of BO2's story that Amy Hennig approved the script before the game was released. However I can't find any evidence supporting this. On the other hand I find quotes like this one:
    But what exactly was her (Ed. note-Amy) impact/influence BO2, non existent? Did she write a general idea and hand it off cause she was busy with SR2? Or is she changing HER story to account for the events of BO2?

    BO2 was put together and written by an entirely different team. But Defiance will incorporate the back stories of all past LOK games.
    And if she approved the script then I think that her name would appear somewhere in the ending credits.

    And on a side-note. I'm not sure how I feel reading this seven years later
    Is LOKD the last game in the LOK series??

    No. I'm sure Eidos will continue to produce LoK games as long as they remain popular. So tell you friends to get the game when it comes out!



    Quote Originally Posted by kud13 View Post
    what i`d really like to see in the next installment is the world where Hylden Dimension looks all hi-tech in a dying wasteland
    Please – anything but “hi-tech”. The flying "robot" or whatever that was in the hylden city was bad enough .
    another point, since we`re on the topic of settings:
    I`ve thoroughly enjoyed the 4 forges of SR2, in fact they were some of the best-designed levels, imo.
    but at the same time, you see Dark Forge and you`re thinking `Europe at the beginning of Enlightement, weith Copernicus and Galileo`, you go Light forge and you think "Ancient Mesopotamia or India", you hit up Air forge and all I can think of are Aztecs...and then Janos' retread and fire forge is straight up Germanic Wagner-style castles.
    I didn't like the fact that the Forges were so different. About the actual styles – my knowledge of architecture is really limited (a year ago I didn't know what a portico was ). But from what I know most of the styles are different to what you have listed (but as stated above - it's based on my limited knowledge. If someone could point out the mistakes that I made, preferably with sources, then I would really appreciate that).

    Dark Forge has some clear influence of architecture of India (particularly the “Sikharas”).
    The Light forge seems to be most influenced by ancient Egypt (open papyrus columns with simple abacuses and “osiride” pillars in the main chamber, a quite fitting inspiration for a Light based complex by the way). The Wind Forge is indeed an example of precolumbian architecture. I'm having a hard time labelling the Retreat however. The general “feel” seems to be influenced by India architecture, with central towers somehow resembling Stambhas (that's the closest comparison I could find), but I can't find any specific influences. If someone knows what it is modelled after then please share this information. The Fire forge looks like a Romanesque style with some Gothic additions (with gargoyles being really elegantly incorporated as a part the vault in side naves ).
    While it's all very cool and pleasing to the eye, it leaves me confused as hell as to just what to make of the Ancients. I'd like the next game to feature a part where Kain gets to witness the war with Hylden, but i'm lost in though as to which setting should be chosen for that.
    They kind of “solved” it in Defiance where they just took all kinds of different architectures and put them in one bag. (a Chinesse dragon around horseshoe arcs in Water Temple being a prime example) .

    Quote Originally Posted by dumah's wraith View Post
    Maybe different construction teams were involved with each Forge. I different human cultures can produce so many styles of architecture, there could be several Ancient styles.

    The gameplay reason for the variation is that the gamer would get sick of the same kind of forge over and over again.
    The problem is that the Forges are all relatively close to each other. And while I understand that there may be different factions within the race, I didn't like the fact that they were so radically different.
    One could expect that a race facing extinction would be united and not divided. Furthermore the coexisting cultures always influence each other, and that can be seen in architecture as well.
    While the temples in Defiance from a gameplay point of view were a huge mistake, they actually were more realistic.

    Quote Originally Posted by kud13 View Post
    true, but I'm sure Humans would have found something.

    I mean, Glyph tech didn't power everything, even in BO2. its main use was to block vampires from passing various parts of the city. that was the only true "magical" thing about it.

    everywhere else, it was used simply as power source. Since steam engine was used alongside it, i'm sure humans would've found a replacement power source.
    plus, all those huge cars we see in the Canyons don't appear to have used glyphs for power.
    Actually I think that it did power everything (or almost everything). The barriers required glyph energy. The lights required glyph energy. Most locks required glyph energy. Even heating bathwater required glyph energy . And all these devices may simply have been designed in a way that that glyphs were the only suitable power source - like I don't think they could redesign "glyph levers" to be "steam engine levers".
    And it's very possible that once the "batteries" were depleted there was no known way for humans to recharge them. The unused dialogue in the game files suggested that glyph energy is in fact a drained life-force energy (which would add some irony to the bloodlust curse).

  20. #95
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    I believe, though I've been looking and I can't find an actual post to corroborate this, that blincoln found out that Amy Hennig approved the BO2 script. He's visited Chrystal Dynamics and has more contacts with the team than any I know, but I believe he's the one that stated this. I wish I could be completely certain now, as it's been so long and I don't have the evidence right here in front of me. If I am wrong, blincoln, I apologize.

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    O: @ Paradoks:

    I wouldn't claim to be all that knowledgeable about Architecture, lol. you may easily be right (but hey, I got the Wind forgee right at least), I just wrote what I remembered my "general impression" being. in the Dark forge, if you watch the cinematic once you've solved it, it gives you a planet and a light source--I thought of Renessaince in Europe because that's when we've discovered most of the planets in the solar system and made strides in astronomy.

    also, for the record, in BO2, the unblockable "red": attacks could still be countered.... by the combat dark gifts. it was very satisfying to punch out Sebastian with Fury just as he was running up to deliver the dropkick.

  22. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by kud13 View Post
    in the Dark forge, if you watch the cinematic once you've solved it, it gives you a planet and a light source
    I'm quite sure that this "planet" actually represents the moon. You can see images of lunar phases around the complex, and some puzzles (including the main chamber one) actually require setting the "clocks" to a new moon state.
    Anyway - does anyone think that dark and light reaver symbols may be modelled after astrolabe (yes, I'm aware of the goth reaver theory )?

  23. #98
    Join Date
    May 2003
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    Yes, the moon gets blasted by sunlight, creating a (wait for it...) lunar eclipse. The lunar eclipse is represented in the "concentric circles, one eclipsing the other" that is the symbol for the Dark Forge. Incidentally, I believe using sun dials and basing things on lunar and solar eclipses in societies on Earth predate the Egyptians and Mayans.

    And yes, Paradoks, those symbols are reminiscent.

  24. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by The Hylden View Post
    Yes, the moon gets blasted by sunlight, creating a (wait for it...) lunar eclipse.
    It cannot be a lunar eclipse, because the "moon" is half-lit. The point of the lunar eclipse is that Earth blocks all sunlight from reaching the moon. What we see is either full moon (looking from the south) or new moon (looking from the north).
    Incidentally, I believe using sun dials and basing things on lunar and solar eclipses in societies on Earth predate the Egyptians and Mayans.
    I know that this isn't really a reliable source, but according to Wikipedia:
    The earliest sundials known from the archaeological record are the obelisks (3500 BC) and shadow clocks (1500 BC) from ancient Egyptian astronomy and Babylonian astronomy.
    If there are mentions about sundials before these civilisations then I'm not aware of them (which obviously doesn't mean that they don't exist, it's just that my knowledge about the subject is really limited).

  25. #100
    Join Date
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    Yes, a lunar eclipse is the Earth blocking the sun from reflecting off of the moon. The new moon works for this. My meaning was that all sunlight was blocked from illuminating the moon on the dark side. Every new moon is an eclipse, actually.

    Civilizations like the Egyptians and the earliest civilizations were basing their understanding of time, mathematics, etc., on the careful observation of celestial bodies in the sky.

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