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Thread: This is the official wishlist for the next TR game (TR11)

  1. #26
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    Thumbs Up my list

    enemies
    -More animal enemies

    gameplay & puzzles

    13. less verbal hints from Lara on puzzles
    14. Larger/ more difficult puzzles
    17. Manual grab to stay
    37. more exploring and less action.
    -No air steering/aftertouch
    -No 'magnetic' hands/ledges


    location & design

    5. Globetrotting
    32. tombs should be part of the story, not as side tombs.
    34. make the game a bit brighter. not too dark themed.
    40. white ledges can be turned off.
    --More colors in general

    misc
    1. No more exclusivity deals.

    story & characters
    11. Lara has more a sense of wit and humour
    43. NO relationships/romancing involving Lara.

    Outfits
    -Return of Classic outfit with the possibility of a Braid and a Backpack

    voice & audio

    12. Replace Camilla Ludington as voice of Lara

    weapons & gear
    -Use the bow less
    ________________________
    They should at least listen to some reviewers:
    I could have done with a few more puzzles
    My only real criticism of Rise of the Tomb Raider’s puzzle-solving is that there isn’t more of it.
    - IGN
    Nevertheless - and as fans will surely have predicted - it's when the game simply remembers to be Tomb Raider that it's at its best. In nine optional Challenge Tombs and at a couple of junctures in the story, Lara finds herself gingerly exploring lonely ruins, gorgeous in their centuries-old decay. Here she solves cleverly assembled, if relatively simple, physics puzzles to gain access to a treasure trove.
    Given the tombs' strong flavour and Crystal Dynamics' comfortable command of the form, why couldn't there have been more of them, with harder puzzles, and why couldn't they have occupied some of the space filled with empty battles and vacant scrambles in the storyline?
    - Eurogamer
    Rise's design consists of four parts: Third-person combat, set piece events, sandbox exploration, and puzzle navigation. The two latter elements work brilliantly and feel very much in keeping with Lara's history; the two former elements, on the other hand, don't quite gel. Unfortunately, they comprise much of the mandatory path through the game.
    the puzzle dungeons feature the game's most involving design
    Rise rarely does anything interesting with its combat. It's wave after wave of identical, balaclava-clad soldiers that come in four basic types; later, you face a different kind of enemy, but they aren't too terribly distinct from the soldiers and also come in four similar basic types.
    - US Gamer

  2. #27
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    @paulojr_man
    some of your new wishes exist already like with the outfits and colour. i have added them to existing ones.
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  3. #28
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    enemies
    + better enemies / improved AI
    + higher combat difficulty options
    > thinking of larger areas where one should go into stealth again to avoid being swarmed. Let enemies use covering fire, etc. Full blown Rambo shouldn't be this easy on highest difficulty.

    gameplay & puzzles
    14. Larger/ more difficult puzzles
    > maybe even multiple ways to solve a puzzle?
    + more DLCs / areas like Baba Yaga
    > reminded me a little of Max Paynes dream chapters. Well made, with beautiful design, and a bit creepy.

    location & design
    6. Urban skyline levels
    40. white ledges can be turned off.
    > currently sometimes immersion breaking for me, also simplifies everything too much
    + keep the dark theme
    > i fell in love with the more realistic Tomb Raider approach in 2013, and i certainly liked it in RoTR.

    misc
    1. No more exclusivity deals.

    story & characters
    43. NO relationships/romancing involving Lara.
    + better connected collectables
    > If those actually tell some sort of story, then i'd prefer a rather straight forward route for them, with less breaks in between. Meaning: not spread throughout the whole game, but a path / level instead.
    + found audio files should be playable while walking around
    > I would truly prefer listening to the (quite good) logs while slowly progressing in the game. Alternative idea:
    + let Lara give hints when a found audio file is connected to an area the player enters (and activate it via button press obv.)

    voice & audio
    + redo certain weapon sounds.
    > quite lackluster for most, no punch to it.

    weapons & gear
    20. Better ability to do stealth. Able to set up booby traps. Also traps for animals and snares.
    + some sort of actual "tech tree"
    + give certain upgrades drawbacks and allow / semi-force them to be removed, de-/ activated
    > i.e. laser pointer can be spotted by enemies, stronger pull on bow always increases readiness time, etc.
    + possibility to switch the "personal light source" yourself
    > in RoTR meaning the glow stick, which should (IMHO) alert enemies on higher difficulties as well.
    + force a manual reload for custom ammunition

    graphics
    + proper anti aliasing
    Last edited by beserene; 27th Mar 2016 at 05:10.

  4. #29
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  5. #30
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    Hey Metalrocks, sorry for OT, can we have a discussion thread for this?

    I really just don't want to create one, that's your honor, but i am really curious about some opinions.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by beserene View Post
    Hey Metalrocks, sorry for OT, can we have a discussion thread for this?

    I really just don't want to create one, that's your honor, but i am really curious about some opinions.
    You can use this thread to discuss wishes. Read the OP

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  7. #32
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    Yep, i'm blind. Read it three times, then finally saw it.

    Anyways, for those who voted to replace Camilla, i'm curious why that is. Is it the style of the character, or is actually her voice (acting) itself?

  8. #33
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    I thought of a couple more. They're tied, but I think they deserve their own wish; it simplifies it.

    69: Let's see Lara get some kicks over what she's doing*.

    70, Lara saving herself with ease rather than a frantic struggle.*2


    * Now, ok, adventuring is dangerous. It is the wilderness after all. I wouldn't want it to be a breeze, even Core Lara had to dodge boulders, avoid spikes and leg it over crumbling floors, but I'd also like Lara to show some exhilaration as she beats nature rather than nature beating her up all the time. A couple of times Lara muttered a "yes!" When completing a puzzle. I thought that was quite nice.

    *2, how many times did Lara fall followed by a frantic scramble to not fall to death? It would be nice for Lara to show progress in this area. Make it so she actually manages to save herself quickly and with ease. Perhaps she can even surprise herself, then smile at her own competence. It would be even better if she didn't almost fall as much, but at least this way, we see some progression. I felt sorry for her front when she's sliding down a cliff side. She must have some serious grazes .
    Last edited by Rai; 28th Mar 2016 at 00:01.

  9. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by beserene View Post
    Anyways, for those who voted to replace Camilla, i'm curious why that is. Is it the style of the character, or is actually her voice (acting) itself?
    She is British living so many years in America, she sort of lost her British Accent, now she sounds more American then trying to be British.

  10. #35
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    Here's one from me:

    Don't unnecessarily cave in to fan pressure for things like dual-pistols or classic outfits if it disrupts the character. If you have a great creative vision for Lara in TR11, stick to it. Don't be a sheep.
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  11. #36
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    @beserene
    what chrisdaventry said.
    she just doesnt sound british enough. i was more or less or with her in he previous title, but in rise, not anymore.
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  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tecstar70 View Post
    Here's one from me:

    Don't unnecessarily cave in to fan pressure for things like dual-pistols or classic outfits if it disrupts the character. If you have a great creative vision for Lara in TR11, stick to it. Don't be a sheep.
    Quote Originally Posted by Metalrocks View Post
    added to op

    @beserene
    what chrisdaventry said.
    she just doesnt sound british enough. i was more or less or with her in he previous title, but in rise, not anymore.
    So is my suggestion not being added to the list? Just wondered...
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  13. #38
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    @beserene: I haven't voted for that particular wish myself, but I do back it, so I'll give you my 2 cents as well

    I too think that Camilla just doesn't manage to deliver a convincing Lara. Not only has she been way too Americanized as mentioned by others, but she also overdoes it a lot of times; her voice sounds too much like the stereotypical dramatic movie trailer voice over. That just isn't Lara. It feels too forced and not natural.

    I would much rather see a truly British voice actress. Someone like Judith Gibbins or Keeley Hawes. Or, for the new younger Lara of the reboot, Shelly Blond.



    Quote Originally Posted by Tecstar70 View Post
    So is my suggestion not being added to the list? Just wondered...
    Why would it be added? It's basically saying "this whole thread shouldn't exist"

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  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Driber View Post
    Why would it be added? It's basically saying "this whole thread shouldn't exist"
    I don't think so. There are things that people could wish for that appear on the list that comply with my wish that may allow them to stick to their vision.
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  15. #40
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    @Driber, what you've described isn't just down to Camilla though. She gets the flack as it is her performing, but it's also down to writing and direction. I'm not hearing the problems with her accent, but some scenes are over dramatic, while I thought others were under acted. I can't remember exact examples, but I did get that impression. I think perhaps she got so much criticism for Saaaam! and that Nooooo! when Roth died, that perhaps she and CD felt it was best to tone it down a bit. I still want her to stay on for the next game though. For consistency and I think she fits this younger Lara. I like her portrayal overall, she needs better direction and scripting.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tecstar70 View Post
    I don't think so. There are things that people could wish for that appear on the list that comply with my wish that may allow them to stick to their vision.
    Well the problem is that people wouldn't know if upvoting the wish would actually back their view points. The devs' vision changes constantly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rai View Post
    @Driber, what you've described isn't just down to Camilla though. She gets the flack as it is her performing, but it's also down to writing and direction. I'm not hearing the problems with her accent, but some scenes are over dramatic, while I thought others were under acted. I can't remember exact examples, but I did get that impression. I think perhaps she got so much criticism for Saaaam! and that Nooooo! when Roth died, that perhaps she and CD felt it was best to tone it down a bit. I still want her to stay on for the next game though. For consistency and I think she fits this younger Lara. I like her portrayal overall, she needs better direction and scripting.
    Sure, bad writing can work against her and her popularity among the fans, but I think that a good voice actress can make it work. And Camilla can't, IMO. She's just not voice acting material, and she seems to have been cast for other reasons.

    I'll grand you that the Saaaaam's and the Noooooo's in TR9 didn't help to sell Camilla as a legit Lara, but even when the first trailer of TR10 was released we've already seen instant complaints about her work. And surely that didn't just came down to writing or direction. There's a legit issue with the way Camilla sounds in general. And personally I believe it can be traced down to her obsession of the American accent/culture, as she admitted to in older interviews.

    Nothing wrong with that in itself, of course. She's allowed to obsessed with whatever she wants; I'm not having a go at her personally. But to me it does clearly hinder her portrayal of the character of Lara, so I'd rather see a voice actress like Judith Gibbins, Keeley Hawes or Shelly Blond who have a true British accent and who don't have to work to put one on when voicing Lara.

    And I hear about consistency. I really do. But to me that would be like settling for something less because people are used to it. No, reach for the sky and demand perfection, I say!

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  17. #42
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    @...all:
    indeed, her voice acting isn't heavily british, but is that a bad thing? It sounds more plain, with a british nuance, not too forced, and could be reasonable considering "she's travelling so much". I.e. if you had a thick cockney accent once, you would lose it over time.

    @Driber: maybe it's just the samples in your posted video, in my humble opinion those voices just don't fit the "new" Lara. I.e. Keeley Hawes voicing the reboot Lara would feel out of place, Camilla though does get the job done - for reboot Lara.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tecstar70 View Post
    Here's one from me:

    Don't unnecessarily cave in to fan pressure for things like dual-pistols or classic outfits if it disrupts the character. If you have a great creative vision for Lara in TR11, stick to it. Don't be a sheep.
    +1
    Though, to be fair, i couldn't care less if some classic outfit is released as optional DLC or not. Won't change the main game in any way, which i hope won't drastically change but instead further refined (as happened with RoTR).

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by beserene View Post
    @...all:
    indeed, her voice acting isn't heavily british, but is that a bad thing?
    Yes. Lara's British accent is one of the things that made her unique.

    Quote Originally Posted by beserene View Post
    It sounds more plain
    And therein lies the problem - it's too plain. I want Lara to stand out among the hordes of stereotypical American characters.

    Quote Originally Posted by beserene View Post
    with a british nuance, not too forced
    Not forced? Quite the opposite - Camilla is trying to force an accent that is unnatural to her. Hence why fans dislike it.

    Quote Originally Posted by beserene View Post
    and could be reasonable considering "she's travelling so much". I.e. if you had a thick cockney accent once, you would lose it over time.
    Two words - Arnold Schwarzenegger.

    People don't just lose their accents by traveling. It's more complex than that. There's no reason why Lara shouldn't keep the accent she was brought up with.

    Quote Originally Posted by beserene View Post
    @Driber: maybe it's just the samples in your posted video, in my humble opinion those voices just don't fit the "new" Lara. I.e. Keeley Hawes voicing the reboot Lara would feel out of place, Camilla though does get the job done - for reboot Lara.
    I think the reason why it would feel out of place is because you're used to Camilla's voice. I'm also betting you haven't really experienced Lara in the older games.

    If Keeley continued to voice Lara throughout the reboot, I bet no one would have batted an eye.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tecstar70 View Post
    Here's one from me:

    Don't unnecessarily cave in to fan pressure
    +1

    Don't listen to people telling you that you need to ship Lara with Sam for "diversity" or "representation".

    Don't listen to people telling you that you need keep Camilla as the voice actress if you feel that changing her to a better one is the way to go.

    Don't listen to people telling you that you need to get rid of white ledges if you feel that white ledges are part of your vision for Tomb Raider.

    Don't listen to people telling you that you need to stay away from exclusivity deals. If making TR a permanent xbox only game is your vision, go for it! Don't be a sheep by listening to the fans!




    ...see how this just doesn't work

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  19. #44
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    About Camilla as Lara's voice actress, Driber pretty much summed it up perfectly! The fact she has to put on an accent really comes across, it just doesn't sound natural and at times she even slips back into an American accent. And yeah, this is a problem because Lara is English and this has always been one of her trademarks.

    And then there's her performance, which to me is just cringeworthy! It's like she is trying too hard, she overdoes it a lot! While playing TR9, I nearly muted my tv because she was annoying me! And sure, the SAMMMMs and NOOOOOs were a big part of it as well, but personally I find her pitch too high for Lara and I hate how she sounds like she's about to get an asthma attack!

    So yeah, to hell with consistency for consistency's sake! The game would benefit from a more capable and appropriate voice actress for Lara.
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  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Driber View Post
    Yes. Lara's British accent is one of the things that made her unique.
    And therein lies the problem - it's too plain. I want Lara to stand out among the hordes of stereotypical American characters.
    Not forced? Quite the opposite - Camilla is trying to force an accent that is unnatural to her. Hence why fans dislike it.
    Two words - Arnold Schwarzenegger. People don't just lose their accents by traveling. It's more complex than that. There's no reason why Lara shouldn't keep the accent she was brought up with.
    I think the reason why it would feel out of place is because you're used to Camilla's voice. I'm also betting you haven't really experienced Lara in the older games.
    If Keeley continued to voice Lara throughout the reboot, I bet no one would have batted an eye.
    I guess this is a point where we just have to disagree.
    What made her unique was the intelligent strong female lead character in an action adventure. Not her accent, not her cup size, and not the damn dual pistols either - to be fair though, you got a point. Those details overall form the character of course.
    The softer and more british voice was suiting to an experienced and older version of Lara Croft, who could handle anything with ease, IMHO... not so much with a younger and inexperienced version of her.

    Not too forced as in not becoming some british stereotype. Not everyone from the islands has a super thick accent.

    Indeed, you don't lose it, and that wasn't my point, instead you soften it up to a more plain version. I pretty much don't know anything about Camilla, nor do i care if she's "obsessed" with any culture or not. I'm strictly talking about my opinion regarding how the voice acting sounds to me in the current games, and if it fits the designed character or not - i do like it.
    Keeley in your provided sample just doesn't fit the character - or at least the sample itself doesn't.

    Define "experienced". I bought the first two Tomb Raider games when they came out, played them, loved them. I'm not a hardcore fan of the franchise, and obviously some time passed in between :P



    Anyways, i just enjoy the "new" Tomb Raider games for what they are, and hope they refine it's features further, instead of forcing "old" ones for plain nostalgic reasons.

    Edit: apropos consistency... wasn't there a movie coming up? I certainly wouldn't say no to a Daisy Ridley voice acting the games as well. At least in my opinion that would suit the character rather nicely.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Driber View Post
    +1

    Don't listen to people telling you that you need to ship Lara with Sam for "diversity" or "representation".

    Don't listen to people telling you that you need keep Camilla as the voice actress if you feel that changing her to a better one is the way to go.

    Don't listen to people telling you that you need to get rid of white ledges if you feel that white ledges are part of your vision for Tomb Raider.

    Don't listen to people telling you that you need to stay away from exclusivity deals. If making TR a permanent xbox only game is your vision, go for it! Don't be a sheep by listening to the fans!




    ...see how this just doesn't work
    But that's not what I said. I said "Don't unnecessarily cave in to fan pressure for things like dual-pistols or classic outfits if it disrupts the character. If you have a great creative vision for Lara in TR11, stick to it. Don't be a sheep."

    Any relationship with Sam should be there if it fits the creative vision, not because some people want it.
    The choice of voice actress is about delivering the creative vision. Again the choice should be because it fits the creative vision, not because some people want it.
    White ledges are nothing to do with a creative vision for the character. They are a game mechanic.
    Exclusivity deals are nothing to do with a creative vision for the character. They are a marketing tool.

    This doesn't negate peoples preferences and CD can do what they want, but my preference is for them not to compromise their vision for the character if it means shoe-horning something in for the sake of it.
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  22. #47
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    Regarding Camilla...

    Part of me is sure they brought her in just for "star power" to boost their cred, in a sense. Much like they threw Lara in a hoodie in the first teaser for 'Rise' to follow the "Assassins Creed" badass look (am I the only one who noticed that?) as well as a few other things with TR2013 and a few other things in their marketing for 'Rise'. I must admit I'd never heard of Camilla before 'TR2013' but there's no way I would've been able to remain so afterwords. When she's on a talk show two years after the game is out and the entire topic of discussion is TR, I think tapping that "star power" worked.

    Now with that being said, I didn't mind her. I'm Keeley all the way, don't get me wrong, but Camilla did some good stuff. The one bit of dialogue I always think of when I think of her performance in 'TR2013' is this little bit here, @2:58



    That's one of the best modern day vocal performances in games, as far as I'm concerned. I was there in that moment with her, anyways. I believed it.
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  23. #48
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    Bring Jonah back again
    Bring her backpack back
    Give the AI new speech patterns (- they all said the same things in rise.)
    Less screaming
    No snow!!!
    Better swimming
    Find artifacts like in previous games, as well as relics
    Keep side missions
    No Sam
    Explain characters more in depth (I barely got to know Ana)
    Give lara more up-to-date gear (like her earpiece in legend)
    Take Lara to Asia again at some point (Even if its just for a party like in legend)
    Keep replayable levels
    Keep super natural element
    33 - Keep upgrades
    5 - Bring croft manor back with puzzles and full exploration
    7 - Better and more stylish clothes
    Last edited by Gitb97; 2nd Apr 2016 at 21:43.

  24. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Tecstar70 View Post
    Here's one from me:

    Don't unnecessarily cave in to fan pressure for things like dual-pistols or classic outfits if it disrupts the character. If you have a great creative vision for Lara in TR11, stick to it. Don't be a sheep.
    Their current creative vision alligns around being a sheep from shoehorning in popular trends like the relatable every woman "I can do this" protoganist, to changing the gameplay to fit the current AAA template of cinematic shootbang complete with handholding, super x ray vision, xp grinding, bow, tacked on multiplayer/microtransations and zombies.

    This direction is utterly derivative, if they wanted to not be a sheep they would have made actual tomb raider games staring lara croft instead of survival games starring katniss everdeen.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larafan1996 View Post
    Their current creative vision alligns around being a sheep from shoehorning in popular trends like the relatable every woman "I can do this" protoganist, to changing the gameplay to fit the current AAA template of cinematic shootbang complete with handholding, super x ray vision, xp grinding, bow, tacked on multiplayer/microtransations and zombies.

    This direction is utterly derivative, if they wanted to not be a sheep they would have made actual tomb raider games staring lara croft instead of survival games starring katniss everdeen.
    lol. You've done it again Larafan1996!
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