Page 1 of 2 12 Last

Thread: Out of Beta - Content and update level?

Out of Beta - Content and update level?

  1. #1

    Out of Beta - Content and update level?

    Right this might be ignorant of me as people might have talked about it as I just didn't see it. But I'll ask anyway. Exactly at what point will Nosgoth be consider out of beta? When does the 'early access' point end? What content needs to be updated and added before that label disappears? I ask because that's a big milestone to cross because, while Nosgoth developers state it'd be continually updated like Minecraft, the out-of-beta point would be V1 of the final release.

    I think in order to be considered out of beta, Nosgoth would need at least ----

    --Rahabim Class
    -- Up to ten maps
    -- Item exchange between players
    -- Horde mode, single and cooperative

    (Stuff I'd personally LIKE to see in the out of beta release)

    -- Armor swapping system on skins for more personalisation
    -- cutscenes for evolving and prestige skin awarding


    But what do others think would be required when the beta tag finally falls away?

  2. #2
    I'm pretty sure it was mentioned that release would be early in 2016.

    Disappointingly, it was implied on Nosgoth's facebook page that the next vampire class would not be the Rahabim. Ten maps in total or ten new ones? There only appears to be enough staff to produce one a year. Item exchange will probably be the first feature to show up out of the ones you mentioned, but I expect that will be after release too.

    Hoarde mode must have more than just the ghouls that some people have asked for. It should actual humans and vampires, although they can be different from the playable ones if it suits the mode's gameplay better.
    "If events are matched closely enough to course, they have a way of restructuring themselves to familiar outcomes." ~ Scorpius, Farscape

  3. #3
    I think the game can't be considered finished until:

    - all bugs have been fixed (this should go without saying)
    - the two remaining classes have been implemented
    - Noscam has been made functional
    - forge has been slightly improved
    - trading has been implemented
    - edit: oh yeah warbands are long overdue
    Last edited by Ysanoire; 16th Dec 2015 at 15:30.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    383
    Originally Posted by Vampmaster
    Disappointingly, it was implied on Nosgoth's facebook page that the next vampire class would not be the Rahabim.
    Excuse me but WHAT??!
    Can't access Nosgoths facebook page myself for some strange reason...

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    1,526
    *Oh hell yes to Horde Mode, can't happen fast enough.
    *With the Nest we should up to 7 maps I believe, more before release would be nice; but that should be enough for the official release.
    *Greater character customization is always welcome.

    WTF do you mean by the next class not being the Rahabim, what else could the next vampire class be?

  6. #6
    Originally Posted by Louves
    Excuse me but WHAT??!
    Can't access Nosgoths facebook page myself for some strange reason...
    The only thing I could find was
    "Nosgoth Andrew Fradley They're certainly a class that we'd like to make. But maybe we'd like to take a look at another class first "

    They didn't say VAMPIRE class. I would think it's more likely that it's about the human being the focus first, not another vampire.
    If there was anything else said I didn't see it.

  7. #7
    Originally Posted by Louves
    Excuse me but WHAT??!
    Can't access Nosgoths facebook page myself for some strange reason...
    Nosgoth (I presume Oghamsmith) asked where the Rahabim had been mentioned. I told him it was in the Crucible preview video and his response was:
    "They're certainly a class that we'd like to make. But maybe we'd like to take a look at another class first ? "

    This was in the thread about the new map with Swiftor.

    EDIT: @Ysanoire, just saw your response. I said implied, and I did ask for clarification.
    "If events are matched closely enough to course, they have a way of restructuring themselves to familiar outcomes." ~ Scorpius, Farscape

  8. #8
    Yeah, I was looking for their response to your question; there isn't one as of yet, but I think it's safe to assume it's about the human class. Maybe.

    Edit: I personally think this simply means that both classes are in early stages of development and they don't actually know which one is coming first so they just didn't want to promise anything.

  9. #9
    Originally Posted by Ysanoire
    Yeah, I was looking for their response to your question; there isn't one as of yet, but I think it's safe to assume it's about the human class. Maybe.

    Edit: I personally think this simply means that both classes are in early stages of development and they don't actually know which one is coming first so they just didn't want to promise anything.
    I hope that's all he meant.
    "If events are matched closely enough to course, they have a way of restructuring themselves to familiar outcomes." ~ Scorpius, Farscape

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    383
    @Ysanoire and Vampmaster, thanks for the clarification, I already got scared for a second.

  11. #11
    Originally Posted by Vampmaster
    There only appears to be enough staff to produce one a year.
    That doesn't bode well at all...


    At the least, we need:

    - The Rahabim (and whatever human counterpart).
    - The Dark Chronicle
    - A trade system
    - A 'delete all' option in the inventory.
    - An 'Expired' tab in the inventory, filterable by class.
    - All current game modes (CtB, Flashpoint) out of testing, available 24/7
    - Horde mode


    Ideally, we'd also have:

    - Lobbies replaced by queue pools, or whatever bloody thing is needed to actually play Nosgoth instead of Waiting: The Game. ("Average Wait": 16 seconds. Actual wait: Twenty minutes and counting.) *Switching the player pool to 'All' gave an average of 1:35 and got me in a full lobby in roughly one minute. Why even have separate pools...


    - Chests fixed.
    - More objective-based and/or AI-based (like using the lieutenants) game modes.
    - Forge improvements, ideally drops tied to certain maps with drop # randomized, and either less cost or a higher payout for matches.
    Last edited by Ygdrasel; 16th Dec 2015 at 22:39.

  12. #12
    Originally Posted by Vampmaster
    Nosgoth (I presume Oghamsmith) asked where the Rahabim had been mentioned. I told him it was in the Crucible preview video and his response was:
    "They're certainly a class that we'd like to make. But maybe we'd like to take a look at another class first ? "

    This was in the thread about the new map with Swiftor.

    EDIT: @Ysanoire, just saw your response. I said implied, and I did ask for clarification.
    I find this very strange...i think it just means they're probably focusing on the human class first maybe? Because they did confirm that Rahabim class would be female, and this statement makes me believe they are working on her...
    Who knows...either way it will take a long while for us to see any new class (but im glad about new Sentinel ability confirmed for the end of this League )

    ==//==

    I agree with Ysanoire about only coming out of beta after all (or at least most) bugs have been crushed...i still can't believe devs haven't fixed bugs like the Vanguard bug (no block if out of ammo or reloading)...such an easy fix (or so it seems).

    After that i think the main focus should be on a Coop mode: Hoard AND Player vs AI (Hoard as a new mode...and AI option for all modes);
    And also having the other modes always available (CTB and Siege).
    With these done, the game would have a good amount of gameplay variety to satisfy casual and pro play.

    After the above, i believe would be a good time to focus on customization...like op's suggestion for skin customization and maybe also color customization...
    Would be cool to have something like Warframe's Dojos...as someone suggested, like having a mountain cover for Sentinel which would all be customizable...

  13. #13
    @Ygdrasel, I meant one map per year. The other stuff you mentioned yould potentially be done by this time next year judging from this year's track record.

    @ParadoxicalOmen, the most they've said about the Rahabim has been offhand comments. Not really an official announcement. And most of the time, they don't say 'Rahabim', they just say "the next class".
    "If events are matched closely enough to course, they have a way of restructuring themselves to familiar outcomes." ~ Scorpius, Farscape

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    1,526
    It has been the trend that the vampire class comes before the human class, the Deceiver came before the Prophet and the Summoner came before the Vanguard; but if the human is closer to completion than the vampire this time around then I'm okay with that. The only concrete detail we really know about the next vampire is that it is female, that at least we know to be true since it was announced on a dev stream.

  15. #15
    horde-mode lmao. rip fps

  16. #16
    Originally Posted by kLauE187
    horde-mode lmao. rip fps
    Because no game has ever had a horde mode without turning into molasses...


    Something else they could do is actually attach the series' name to this thing.
    It's no bloody wonder none of the players knows it's from a series.

  17. #17
    Originally Posted by Ygdrasel
    Because no game has ever had a horde mode without turning into molasses...


    Something else they could do is actually attach the series' name to this thing.
    It's no bloody wonder none of the players knows it's from a series.
    I think they're a bit afraid to call it Legacy of Kain: Nosgoth. it has very little to do with Kain himself and the backlash from the deepest LoK fans would be even worse than when this game was announced. I'd personally be 100% behind putting the series name on this game, but that's just me.

    What i'd like to see in this game before beta or shortly after, though? Integration of the rich Loreblogs into the game. The way I picture it is, every 5 levels per class you get a reward, well attach a small cutscene to it that also explains the lore behind that class, painting a huge picture for everyone playing the game. it'll make it feel like more than just an Arena Game, even to those who aren't familiar with LoK, it'll be obvious there is a hell of a lot more to this world than they realize, bringing more attention to the series as a whole (which could lead to Square getting the courage to DO something with the series without fear of it not selling well.)

    Every 5 PLAYER levels you'd unlock a piece of the overarching backstory of nosgoth; kain's disappearance, the strengthening of the humans, the rebuilding of Sommerdamm, the siege of Meridian. etc etc.

    I imagine it like an animated comic; akin to Infinite Crisis' cutscenes or Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker's cutscenes. Easier on the devs than doing full cgi scenes, and they can be narrated by the same people who voice the characters, with the narrator to the 'intro' scene for Nosgoth (the first time you boot the game up after installing) narrating the 'overaching' story scenes.

  18. #18
    Originally Posted by IKathaarI
    What i'd like to see in this game before beta or shortly after, though? Integration of the rich Loreblogs into the game. The way I picture it is, every 5 levels per class you get a reward, well attach a small cutscene to it that also explains the lore behind that class, painting a huge picture for everyone playing the game. it'll make it feel like more than just an Arena Game, even to those who aren't familiar with LoK, it'll be obvious there is a hell of a lot more to this world than they realize, bringing more attention to the series as a whole (which could lead to Square getting the courage to DO something with the series without fear of it not selling well.)

    Every 5 PLAYER levels you'd unlock a piece of the overarching backstory of nosgoth; kain's disappearance, the strengthening of the humans, the rebuilding of Sommerdamm, the siege of Meridian. etc etc.

    I imagine it like an animated comic; akin to Infinite Crisis' cutscenes or Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker's cutscenes. Easier on the devs than doing full cgi scenes, and they can be narrated by the same people who voice the characters, with the narrator to the 'intro' scene for Nosgoth (the first time you boot the game up after installing) narrating the 'overaching' story scenes.
    Ah yes I wanted that too but I wasn't sure if it was an essential out of BETA addition or not. Now that I think about it though, it definitely is. And I know some people are gunna go 'its not an sp gaaammmee' - but if that's the case you really ought not be making a storyless multiplayer out of this franchise. The rich lore, story and history is tied into everything. A dark chronicle with lore addtions, at least those relevant to the clans and various environments are totally necessary. Limited comic book style animated consciences - like you'd get in Sonic and the secret rings to tell some elements - oh my yes. Definetly elements like these should be in a out of Beta release, otherwise its just a game wearing LoKs skin and nothing else.

  19. #19
    I think the game's top priority nearing the release date is achieving POLISH, and resisting the 'feature creep' temptation of pushing new content (or even systems) that will need testing and then polishing itself.
    I agree that the game cannot be considered finished until:

    - Known serious bugs are fixed. This includes reaching the netcode fluidity we had at the start of the year (but without the specific hitreg problems like the hexshot we had); absolutely no gamebreaking bugs such as the 'invisible player' or 'Repeater reload' or broken functionality like Disabling curse. Game systems should work 100% predictably, consistently and as fluid as possible.
    - Optimisation and 'local' or technical bug fixes. This includes client resources allocation, driver and compatibility problems, and even working on specific spots on maps like the 'cant reliably climb here' ones.

    - Finish Leagues 'mode' tortures. This whole 'mode' testing needs to reach its final conclusion and that is either a different form with its own potential or just oblivion, uniting the Player Pool at last so we and the new players may play decently in a focused environment.I will elaborate on that in detail in the Leagues Beta 4.0 post soon - tomorrow if I find the time.

    - Balance! Instead of coming up with completely new ideas to go through the whole testing/implementation, existing ones should be checked for adequate functionality and have their finishing touches. We have the established ceiling of staple loadouts, but there are quite some abilities and talents that are far below that usefulness. Judgement, Whip, Kidnap, Leap attack, Ground Slam, Dive Bomb, Splitter Hatchets, Demolitionist and Agility (reaver) talents, this type of 'trashy' stuff. These are only the brightest examples.
    Before inventing and implementing wholy new stuff, these have to be dealt with, they only need some finetuning.

    - Usability testing, systems logic straightening. Developers really need to catch some mice (users) and force them into their labyrinth, observing their every step and problem. Then work hard into making their labyrinth a straight corridor with a travelator. A small example is the Autorecharge option as suggested in this post. Most of such ideas don't need much effort to implement, its more about identifying the problems.

    Content:
    - Each loadout slot really needs to have at least 3 options to choose from. Considering how hard good balance is to achieve I hope that 2 of those 3 will at least be viable and present us with a meaningful CHOICE. Right now some of the ability grids look barren.

    - As hard as it is to admit, I think I can actually wait some more for those new classes. Considering the development time it has taken to implement last 2 (btw is Abyssal Bolt fixed yet?), I feel I need to be realistic about my expectations. Do I need a new class with 2 primaries to choose and some no-choice secondary for the resources it would take to make the rest of this list come true?

    - Artistic resources should be allocated as suggested to making some lore flavour that can be shown at pre-tutorials (class specific stuff) and at reaching certain levels and most importantly - hiting 25 level on a class and Evolving. This can be something easier to produce - Comics-like-animations or Cutscenes using the game engine or just animated images/pages.

    - Noscam improvements. How is that important for release specifically? Remember how many of the new guys call 'hacks' or just can't believe in the skill difference present and its result in matches? Just having 1) Player view in Noscam can mean the difference between a person who learns from a bitterly lost match and a person who leaves the game for good sincerely believing its a HACK-fest game. This person might be a game journalist/youtuber/twitcher and even a simple steam reviewer and that means even more traction to his opinion. I'd also love 2) all players' outlines through obstacles and 3) all current hp shown on the interface


    As you can see I think that the game must make absolutely SURE that it retains as much new players it gains on release as possible and that means working on Presentational values that could have gotten delayed for years and those player experiences that you can have in <100 hours - like netcode and fluidity and nonfunctional or unbalanced stuff.
    Its literary NOW or NEVER. If the development focuses on something grand like a new mode, the close release will not reach its full potential and the mode will just be a piece of useless prototype in an abandoned game
    If the release gains high momentum, then we'll all get new classes, new modes, new maps, all the new content that will get released if the development will have its funding
    Last edited by Farnbeak; 17th Dec 2015 at 19:01.

  20. #20
    Originally Posted by Farnbeak
    All the reasonable things Farnbeak said.
    The smartest road possible.

  21. #21
    Maybe they should just take the game off line until it's 100% bug free if there's nothing interesting coming up in the meantime.
    Last edited by Vampmaster; 17th Dec 2015 at 21:53.
    "If events are matched closely enough to course, they have a way of restructuring themselves to familiar outcomes." ~ Scorpius, Farscape

  22. #22
    Originally Posted by IKathaarI
    I think they're a bit afraid to call it Legacy of Kain: Nosgoth. it has very little to do with Kain himself and the backlash from the deepest LoK fans would be even worse than when this game was announced. I'd personally be 100% behind putting the series name on this game, but that's just me.

    What i'd like to see in this game before beta or shortly after, though? Integration of the rich Loreblogs into the game. The way I picture it is, every 5 levels per class you get a reward, well attach a small cutscene to it that also explains the lore behind that class, painting a huge picture for everyone playing the game. it'll make it feel like more than just an Arena Game, even to those who aren't familiar with LoK, it'll be obvious there is a hell of a lot more to this world than they realize, bringing more attention to the series as a whole (which could lead to Square getting the courage to DO something with the series without fear of it not selling well.)

    Every 5 PLAYER levels you'd unlock a piece of the overarching backstory of nosgoth; kain's disappearance, the strengthening of the humans, the rebuilding of Sommerdamm, the siege of Meridian. etc etc.

    I imagine it like an animated comic; akin to Infinite Crisis' cutscenes or Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker's cutscenes. Easier on the devs than doing full cgi scenes, and they can be narrated by the same people who voice the characters, with the narrator to the 'intro' scene for Nosgoth (the first time you boot the game up after installing) narrating the 'overaching' story scenes.
    It has everything to do with Kain though. It's his empire. His conquest. A stepping stone in his legacy.
    It has every right to the proper title.

    And yes, integration of the lore blogs is what I meant with the Dark Chronicle. And yeah, they could stylize it. Put narrated (ideally by Simon Templeman - like maybe while waiting for Raziel at the Chronoplast at SR's end, he's peeking back to check on his warring empire) blog text over static "murals" (think of the ones from the series, that kind of look) depicting relevant action. Like a Powerpoint show, or how Infamous does with comic pages.

    Absolutely necessary before it leaves beta. I would argue that it's the most necessary element of all myself. Everything else is worthless if it doesn't pull new attention to the series.

    And I hadn't mentioned it but Professor Farnbeak makes a solid point: Loadout options are actually pretty limited. There ought to be at least three different 'sets' of options per class. (Obviously these options could be mixed-and-matched for more sets but you get the idea.)

    We especially need something for Tyrant and Sentinel. Their only options in the RMB slot are "default ability" or "longer/shorter version of default ability"...

  23. #23
    You guys scared me with that talk about how the Rahabim might not be the next vamp class.

    I think for full release the game should (in no particular order):
    1) Add two more classes (the Rahabim, and their human counterpart)
    2) Finish the Nest
    3) Get original music for the Crucible and the Nest
    4) Get League, Flashpoint, and Capture the Body out of beta
    5) Add some more abilities to the classes that have less options
    6) Squash tons of bugs and optimize the crap out of the game
    7) Balance some of the existing abilities/classes to be more viable

    Some things that would be nice, but probably be okay to leave until after release:
    1) Lore (they need to get lore incorporated, but I would like the game to be in a good place before really promoting the series)
    2) Finish the incomplete Exalted skin set
    3) Fix/Scrap the terrible chest system
    4) Trading system

    I'm probably forgetting some things, but this is what came to mind.

  24. #24
    Originally Posted by Gugulug5000
    You guys scared me with that talk about how the Rahabim might not be the next vamp class.

    I think for full release the game should (in no particular order):
    1) Add two more classes (the Rahabim, and their human counterpart)
    2) Finish the Nest
    3) Get original music for the Crucible and the Nest
    4) Get League, Flashpoint, and Capture the Body out of beta
    5) Add some more abilities to the classes that have less options
    6) Squash tons of bugs and optimize the crap out of the game
    7) Balance some of the existing abilities/classes to be more viable

    Some things that would be nice, but probably be okay to leave until after release:
    1) Lore (they need to get lore incorporated, but I would like the game to be in a good place before really promoting the series)
    2) Finish the incomplete Exalted skin set
    3) Fix/Scrap the terrible chest system
    4) Trading system

    I'm probably forgetting some things, but this is what came to mind.
    I think 4 and 7 are components of 6. The upgrade-item-to-mysterious was announced in August (and don't mean someday, I mean it was due that very week), so that shoud be added soon.
    "If events are matched closely enough to course, they have a way of restructuring themselves to familiar outcomes." ~ Scorpius, Farscape

  25. #25
    if the Rahabim aren't the next class....that would be a terrible terrible mistake on their end. I hope the devs realise this

Page 1 of 2 12 Last

Tags for this Thread