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Thread: Finale was great, BUT... [spoilers]

  1. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Xeitgeixt View Post
    Ah, but that's WHY it's important to show happy endings with LGBT characters - because there's still a higher mortality rate for LGBT people than hetero people. Yes, it's not obvious, but there's this kind of subliminal message that it sends when storytellers kill them off in everything... I'm trying to think how best to explain. If you show lesbians being happy together, living a normal life at the end of their story, more conservative people start to say "Wow, they're a real couple and not just sinners." That helps there be more acceptance of different sexualities. The flipside of that is, if you show them being killed off all the time (regardless of WHY they're killed off), even though for LGBT people (or even just straight people who have no agenda either way) it's "Oh my God, so tragic"... for anti-LGBT bigots it's "Haha, they got what they deserved for being gay". It's a subliminal message, not an overt one.

    (And for the hundredth time, I'm not saying Dontnod used the Bury Your Gays trope on purpose. Just that a lot of writers do it all the time.)
    I can understand one, I have my doubts everyone, fortunately is not blind to that subliminal message and see through it. I got plenty of friends and acquaintances that do not really care if people are LBGT or not.

    I think some of the LBGT can use a happy ending now and then, but I dread that the internet will go a blaze with the bigots using their keyboard of spew out some poison.

    I think the possible LBGT representation in Life is Strange is a good example of well written and relatable bisexual characters (Chloe and Rachel), so even as Life is Strange doesn't offer us an clearly defined happy ending, it does show is can be done.
    Life is what you make of it, or atleast try to make of it.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xeitgeixt View Post
    .You having diabetes doesn't apply to this discussion in the least, and while that is unfortunate and I wish you the best of health, you're using it as a ploy to distract from the topic at hand and draw sympathy for your situation.
    Okay, maybe my English isn't that good. I really, really wasn't trying to draw sympathy for my situation. I was trying to show you that if you are in minority, other people won't think about that minority.

    And it's still usually one token gay character in a cast of straight people
    And do you know why? Because gays are present in 4%, of course there will always be much more straight people in cast!
    So no, you don't get to straightwash an obviously bisexual character because it's your "preference"
    I already did and even you didn't stop me.
    Good, because from the start you have been dragging down the discussion by going off-topic and making false equivalencies.
    Woah woah woah. Just look up. I had about THREE sentences about Warren, while you wrote the entire PARAGRAPH about him and then stated I am off topic. Seriously, who was going off topic here? Also, from the beginning, you are attacking me because you think I'm not thinking gay enough and how dare I not kiss the same sex everywhere I can.
    This game has nothing of your "bury your gays". Chloe doesn't even have to die, so this entire thread is off topic, since it has nothing to do with the game.
    when yours is the majority, and you have a legion of straight characters in media with which you can identify.
    I was totally fine with my straight Max and now, because of you, she can't be straight anymore.

  3. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Tataboj View Post

    I was totally fine with my straight Max and now, because of you, she can't be straight anymore.
    I hope you are more certain of yourself than that.
    Life is what you make of it, or atleast try to make of it.

  4. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by KristaD View Post
    I hope you are more certain of yourself than that.
    LOL thank you, I was just thinking that. Why should I apologise for saying water is wet and dirt is dirty, just because it shocks them?

  5. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Xeitgeixt View Post
    LOL thank you, I was just thinking that. Why should I apologise for saying water is wet and dirt is dirty, just because it shocks them?
    I had to learn this lesson this quite early in life, even I was prancing about when I was 17-18 in leather troucers, Marilyn Manson tshirt, with various uncommon jewelry and what not, if I don't stand up for myself no else will do. It is really amazing what stories people can come up with just because I tend to stand out. Just keep that behind your ear (Icelandic saying)
    Life is what you make of it, or atleast try to make of it.

  6. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by KristaD View Post
    I had to learn this lesson this quite early in life, even I was prancing about when I was 17-18 in leather troucers, Marilyn Manson tshirt, with various uncommon jewelry and what not, if I don't stand up for myself no else will do. It is really amazing what stories people can come up with just because I tend to stand out. Just keep that behind your ear (Icelandic saying)
    Sounds like we both had similar phases in similar eras of our lives... I still have a Manson t-shirt somewhere, haha. But yeah, if your belief in something is shaken by one person commenting on the internet, then it didn't have a very solid foundation in the first place.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xeitgeixt View Post
    Sounds like we both had similar phases in similar eras of our lives... I still have a Manson t-shirt somewhere, haha. But yeah, if your belief in something is shaken by one person commenting on the internet, then it didn't have a very solid foundation in the first place.
    Umm, do you know what sarcasm and hyperbole means?

    But of course you react on my last little sentence, that isn't even a little off topic. *SARCASM

  8. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Xeitgeixt View Post
    Sounds like we both had similar phases in similar eras of our lives... I still have a Manson t-shirt somewhere, haha. But yeah, if your belief in something is shaken by one person commenting on the internet, then it didn't have a very solid foundation in the first place.
    Yeah, sounds like we might have a thing or 2 in common, I don't have my Manson tees though, they kinda got worn out, my clothes generally don't last for 17 years or so.
    Life is what you make of it, or atleast try to make of it.

  9. #34
    I had a feeling this thread would wind up as another victimization case but decided to give OP the benefit of the doubt to hear them out. Unfortunately after reading through everything I was proven right. The same typical woe is gay people rhetoric for being marginalized because "LOOK HOW HARD IT IS TO KISS CHLOE!". Ridiculous. You see marginalization because you want to. No one would have given this a second thought if you haden't tried to make something out of it. Nice job on Tataboj for trying to reason with them but it appears it's futile.

  10. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by iReturnVideotapes View Post
    I had a feeling this thread would wind up as another victimization case but decided to give OP the benefit of the doubt to hear them out. Unfortunately after reading through everything I was proven right. The same typical woe is gay people rhetoric for being marginalized because "LOOK HOW HARD IT IS TO KISS CHLOE!". Ridiculous. You see marginalization because you want to. No one would have given this a second thought if you haden't tried to make something out of it. Nice job on Tataboj for trying to reason with them but it appears it's futile.
    Could you explain to what point you are trying to make here ?
    Life is what you make of it, or atleast try to make of it.

  11. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by KristaD View Post
    Could you explain to what point you are trying to make here ?
    Sure. OP is looking for a problem where one doesn't exist. It's in my post.

  12. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by iReturnVideotapes View Post
    Sure. OP is looking for a problem where one doesn't exist. It's in my post.
    Try enough, but Tataboj isn't the only one speaking up against it.
    Life is what you make of it, or atleast try to make of it.

  13. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by KristaD View Post
    Try enough, but Tataboj isn't the only one speaking up against it.
    Did you want credit too?

  14. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by iReturnVideotapes View Post
    Did you want credit too?
    Nope, just that you don't make it sound like people hold an opinion that they actually don't, if you please.
    Life is what you make of it, or atleast try to make of it.

  15. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by KristaD View Post
    Nope, just that you don't make it sound like people hold an opinion that they actually don't, if you please.
    I read through the entire thread. If I make it sound that way, it's because that's the way it is. OP has an opinion that the game did something to marginalize LGBT people by making it harder to kiss Chloe than it was to kiss Warren. I'm simply pointing out that they didn't, and that OP is looking into things that don't exist. It's already been laid out why they were wrong. They just can't see it.

  16. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by iReturnVideotapes View Post
    I read through the entire thread. If I make it sound that way, it's because that's the way it is. OP has an opinion that the game did something to marginalize LGBT people by making it harder to kiss Chloe than it was to kiss Warren. I'm simply pointing out that they didn't, and that OP is looking into things that don't exist. It's already been laid out why they were wrong. They just can't see it.
    I'm not talking about the OP here (witch has some strange perceptions regarding things, I might go far as to say he has predisposed views). But there are other people giving their views as well that do not agree with his opinion about how the game marginalizes LBGT people.

    I don't understand how one person can have this view and somewhat dodges anything that doesn't agree with his point, but I'll sure speak up against it.



    P.S.

    I'm not sure if it harder to kiss Chloe than Warren, I did both during my play though without any difficulty.
    Life is what you make of it, or atleast try to make of it.

  17. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by iReturnVideotapes View Post
    I had a feeling this thread would wind up as another victimization case but decided to give OP the benefit of the doubt to hear them out. Unfortunately after reading through everything I was proven right. The same typical woe is gay people rhetoric for being marginalized because "LOOK HOW HARD IT IS TO KISS CHLOE!". Ridiculous. You see marginalization because you want to. No one would have given this a second thought if you haden't tried to make something out of it. Nice job on Tataboj for trying to reason with them but it appears it's futile.


    Thanks for making my point for me, though: No one would have given this a second thought. If you came into this thread expecting to do anything but discuss the possible shortcomings of LGBT representation in the game, then I don't know what you're even doing here, since that was the whole point? To pick that apart? Go comment somewhere else if you don't want to talk about this???

    And I never said anything about marginalization; that's a different topic that doesn't apply to this game. For somebody accusing someone else of "the same typical rhetoric", you sure are trotting out buzzwords without using them accurately.

  18. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Xeitgeixt View Post


    Thanks for making my point for me, though: No one would have given this a second thought. If you came into this thread expecting to do anything but discuss the possible shortcomings of LGBT representation in the game, then I don't know what you're even doing here, since that was the whole point? To pick that apart? Go comment somewhere else if you don't want to talk about this???

    And I never said anything about marginalization; that's a different topic that doesn't apply to this game. For somebody accusing someone else of "the same typical rhetoric", you sure are trotting out buzzwords without using them accurately.
    The only reason I'm not talking is because there's nothing else to say that hasn't already been said. You see a problem with the way the developers handled the issue of LGBT politics because it was somehow harder for you to get a kiss out of Chloe than it was to get one out of Warren. I mean listen to the accusation alone. It's absurd. On a scale of third world to first world problems this is off the charts
    Last edited by iReturnVideotapes; 27th Oct 2015 at 16:45.

  19. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by iReturnVideotapes View Post
    The only reason I'm not talking is because there's nothing else to say that hasn't already been said. You see a problem with the way the developers handled the issue of LGBT politics because it was somehow harder for you to get a kiss out of Chloe than it was to get one out of Warren. I mean listen to the accusation alone. It's absurd. On a scale of third world to first world problems this is off the charts
    "The only reason I'm not talking" You and I have a different definition of "not talking", haha.

    Again, your "first world problem" comment is off topic. If you want to discuss the situation in Somalia, start a thread for that. It should be discussed, it's terrible, but that's not what this thread is for.

  20. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Xeitgeixt View Post
    "The only reason I'm not talking" You and I have a different definition of "not talking", haha.

    Again, your "first world problem" comment is off topic. If you want to discuss the situation in Somalia, start a thread for that. It should be discussed, it's terrible, but that's not what this thread is for.
    Right. THIS thread is to complain about a single kiss and how hard it was to get one out of Chloe and how the developers really did a disservice to the LGBT community because of that. And I have nothing against honest criticism, but this isn't honest. It's petty and trivial. You're nitpicking and I don't think that's very fair to the developers that poured their heart and soul into this game.

  21. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by iReturnVideotapes View Post
    Right. THIS thread is to complain about a single kiss and how hard it was to get one out of Chloe and how the developers really did a disservice to the LGBT community because of that. And I have nothing against honest criticism, but this isn't honest. It's petty and trivial. You're nitpicking and I don't think that's very fair to the developers that poured their heart and soul into this game.
    Wow, okay. So you somehow missed that the point of my original post wasn't the kiss, but the death toll. Because you "read all of it". Which would also include the multiple times I said that it's nothing against Dontnod as a company, and that I never said they were being ***s or anything. If they can't handle some honest criticism (which this is, regardless of your half-baked opinion) they shouldn't put out content; that's how media works. Sorry, not sorry.

    Also, I'll reply again when somebody has something to say about the actual subject. Wasting time with petty squabbling about things that are beside the point wasn't what I was looking forward to when I started it, but then again, it's the internet. I guess I was just hoping this forum was slightly above Youtube comments in that regard.

  22. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Xeitgeixt View Post
    Wow, okay. So you somehow missed that the point of my original post wasn't the kiss, but the death toll. Because you "read all of it". Which would also include the multiple times I said that it's nothing against Dontnod as a company, and that I never said they were being ***s or anything. If they can't handle some honest criticism (which this is, regardless of your half-baked opinion) they shouldn't put out content; that's how media works. Sorry, not sorry.

    Also, I'll reply again when somebody has something to say about the actual subject. Wasting time with petty squabbling about things that are beside the point wasn't what I was looking forward to when I started it, but then again, it's the internet. I guess I was just hoping this forum was slightly above Youtube comments in that regard.
    You can say "nothing against dontnod" all you want but throughout the thread, even in the face of reason, you chose to push an agenda that had no business being here. You want this to be a problem. You're making a mountain out of an ant hill. And from what I've seen, the forum is above youtube comments with many civil and reasonable people discussing the game with fair mind, but it's clearly not above tumblr politics.

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xeitgeixt View Post
    "The only reason I'm not talking" You and I have a different definition of "not talking", haha.

    Again, your "first world problem" comment is off topic. If you want to discuss the situation in Somalia, start a thread for that. It should be discussed, it's terrible, but that's not what this thread is for.
    You really aren't good in examples, are you?

    Also, I'll reply again when somebody has something to say about the actual subject. Wasting time with petty squabbling about things that are beside the point wasn't what I was looking forward to when I started it, but then again, it's the internet. I guess I was just hoping this forum was slightly above Youtube comments in that regard.
    You were off topic whole time, friend.
    See how horrible it is reacting to one or two sentences of the entire long post?
    Last edited by Tataboj; 27th Oct 2015 at 17:55.

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