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Thread: Deus Ex: Mankind Divided -Announcement/Gen Discussion - NEW: DXMD @ No1 UK Charts

Deus Ex: Mankind Divided -Announcement/Gen Discussion - NEW: DXMD @ No1 UK Charts

  1. #126
    Originally Posted by Shralla
    It really would just be better if the game were not called Deus Ex.
    This isn't as funny the second time.

  2. #127
    Is there anywhere I can watch the gameplay demo without the useless commentary?

  3. #128
    Game looks purdy and fun. AJ's not a blank slate, and that's great as far as I'm concerned. One of my foremost wishes is that they delve into his character more compared to Human Revolution. What we had in HR was nice but not enough.

    I wonder if every dog on every corner in Prague will know his infolink frequency as well.

    Originally Posted by Shralla
    I dunno. It's frustrating because it looks like a fun game overall, I just wish it wasn't a Deus Ex game.
    I agree, but probably not for the same reasons. At this point I wish they would just diverge completely from the old games and let the old and the new stand on their own. Or at least make their games into some sort of an alternate timeline, then they could dump the useless parts like the conspiracy BS, the alien experiments (i dread that those are going to be brought up at some point), the inventory tetris and some others, retain whatever they like to retain and add whatever they feel like adding without people raging out at them all the time. Would be better for all involved I think, but doesn't' seem like that's even a remote possibility by this point.
    Last edited by Avenging_Teabag; 17th Jun 2015 at 10:55.

  4. #129
    They really force those mechanics. It reminds me mom that wants to feed a baby and baby doesn't want to eat,come on open your mouth.There are some pc players like me would like to stick more to Deus Ex 1 GMDX rather then console DXHR.But what can we do?
    Last edited by Isumbarus; 17th Jun 2015 at 15:03.

  5. #130
    I like the inventory tetris! Grenades should stack though. As should whiskey. Playing the DC
    at the moment, having just finished DX
    again. Do I need to spoiler either of those? Doing it just in case...

    With the alien experiments, wasn't it left open in the original as to whether they were aliens or just transgenics?

    I'm looking forward to MD anyway. Really excited about it as I enjoyed (and am enjoying) HR a lot. Just hope they don't cram in too many references to or characters from DX - I thought they got this about right in HR, really don't want a Star Wars prequels situation (little Boba Fett and his traumatic childhood? Arghh!!)

  6. #131
    Originally Posted by Avenging_Teabag
    . Or at least make their games into some sort of an alternate timeline, then they could dump the useless parts like the conspiracy BS, the alien experiments (i dread that those are going to be brought up at some point), the inventory tetris and some others, retain whatever they like to retain and add whatever they feel like adding without people raging out at them all the time. Would be better for all involved I think, but doesn't' seem like that's even a remote possibility by this point.
    So you truly just don't even want a Deus Ex game. Conspiracy "BS," really? The literally the entirety of Deus Ex is about conspiracies and always has been. Those weren't aliens in Deus Ex, you just weren't paying attention, which is probably exactly why you have an issue with it in the first place.

    Originally Posted by xaduha3
    This isn't as funny the second time.
    What part of wanting a game that shares almost no similarities to the original to be called something else is supposed to be funny?
    Speed up the accelerating returns, 'cause carbon doesn’t work, I want to evolve and operate at terahertz.

  7. #132
    Originally Posted by Shralla
    So you truly just don't even want a Deus Ex game.
    I dunno. as far as I, and it seems, the development team are concerned, Human Revolution was a Deus Ex game, and a very good one. Obviously some people disagree, and never the twain shall meet. All i'm saying is divorcing the new games from the old ones entirely would be probably a good solution for everyone. Not that it's gonna happen, but I would be all for that. I'm not picky about names: if I like the game, you can call it whatever the hell you want.
    Originally Posted by Shralla
    Conspiracy "BS," really? The literally the entirety of Deus Ex is about conspiracies and always has been.
    Yeah, doesn't make it not BS
    Originally Posted by Shralla
    Those weren't aliens in Deus Ex, you just weren't paying attention, which is probably exactly why you have an issue with it in the first place.
    Could be, it's been a long while since i played the old games.

  8. #133
    But that conspiracy "BS" is the very foundation of the Deus Ex Universe. Without it it would just be another Sci-Fi game of the month with superhumans. Discovering how characters relate in this game makes up a big part of the experience. Figuring out who's behind what event makes the story unique and interesting, the game would be quite boring without it.
    Also to that BS part: There are very few games/movies/books without bull. FTL travel, magic, augmentations and soldiers that survive everything without even the slightest physical or psychological scars? That's all BS too.

  9. #134
    Finally got around to viewing the trailer with Dugas and the two annoying guys rambling over everything. Lets start with the good and work our way to the bad stuff.


    (click image to enlarge)

    I like the lack of visual outline. No nasty orange line around everything. Since they chose not to showcase that in this demo I'm holding out hope that it won't be made a big part of MD. Fortunately it could be turned off in HR, but better support for stuff like that is always appreciated.

    Being able to bash open a lock is good. It gives you more options when dealing with obstacles.

    The objective marker is unfortunate, but industry standard these days.



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    Choosing where you can roll to is good. A better movement system was needed. A good movement system means levels van be built more intelligently and naturally. It can make for more interesting level design.


    (click image to enlarge)

    The vision aug is a nice throwback to an earlier trailer for HR. Finally we can see the weapon equipped on a char.



    (click image to enlarge)

    (click image to enlarge)

    I'm liking the more involved mod system for your weapons. Choosing ammo is good. Allows for more approaches with a weapon and extends their utility. Changing the fire mode does the same thing. The name of the scope and lasers and silencers makes it seem like there are more upgrades for a single slot. I like that and I'm hoping that the different items actually make a difference in gameplay. The top image was a promo one from a while back so I;m pleased to see all this made it into the demo.

    I haven't seen the inventory. I'm wondering if that is even in the game. Between this menu and the quick menu we see in the demo are they even planning on including it?



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    And here we come to them making the exact same mistake as in HR. Coupling the XP system to fights. Not just that, but rewarding stealth more. Depending on how you shoot them you're again behind the curve. So once again they are "forcing" you into a certain playstyle. You can try and make combat more fun, but if it isn't rewarding people will seldom choose it.
    Rule 30: A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.

  10. #135
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    I see the combat approach is an entirely different beast, completely removed from HR. Pinky is not going to like this, me thinks!

    I can see why they've opted to depart from realistic firefights to engage a more gameish rendition, but IMO it makes it ever slightly more generic. The change of pace, armor and the slow-mo also gives out a cover-shooter vibe I could do without. I really hope the levels are not too designed around it or affected by it. As much fun as Max Payne 3 might have been, the level design was laboriously massacred by the atrocious cover-shooter addition.

    As for stealth being more rewarding, while I see what you'Re saying from an XP standpoint, ressources being tied to a non-lethal takedown made the stealth experience far more annoying than the loss of XPs for those who decided to shoot. At least weapons and guns were bloody everywhere to be found, while we had to worry about some damn chocolate bars to take someone down from behind.

    Speaking of XP, this might be heresy but at this point I'm questioning why augments are even tied to such a system anymore. Considering that in HR, getting all the augs I wanted was only a question of "when", and not "if", why not simply make augment kits as quest items or part of story progression? Personally I would rather reintroduce mutually exclusive slots, to truly respect the idea of choice and consequences in character progression, and get rid of XPs. What's the point of XPs, other than pretending to offer an old-school mechanic in a game absolutely not built around skills? The Arkham series had Batman getting his tech all the way throughout the story, and it worked rather well. Couple this with choices and decisions to make, and in the context of an extra-light RPG it would feel a lot more at home.
    To lose one parent, Mr Worthing, may be regarded as a misfortune; to lose both looks like carelessness

  11. #136
    Originally Posted by Salfurium
    But that conspiracy "BS" is the very foundation of the Deus Ex Universe. Without it it would just be another Sci-Fi game of the month with superhumans.
    Couldn't agree more.

  12. #137
    Originally Posted by FrankCSIS
    Speaking of XP, this might be heresy but at this point I'm questioning why augments are even tied to such a system anymore. Considering that in HR, getting all the augs I wanted was only a question of "when", and not "if", why not simply make augment kits as quest items or part of story progression? Personally I would rather reintroduce mutually exclusive slots, to truly respect the idea of choice and consequences in character progression, and get rid of XPs. What's the point of XPs, other than pretending to offer an old-school mechanic in a game absolutely not built around skills? The Arkham series had Batman getting his tech all the way throughout the story, and it worked rather well. Couple this with choices and decisions to make, and in the context of an extra-light RPG it would feel a lot more at home.
    Or reintroduce skills of course.

    (click image to enlarge)

  13. #138
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    Of course.

    Can you name me two action-rpg franchises in recent history that have added RPG features instead of removing them as the series progressed though?

    I'd like to see skills back, but I'm not holding my breath. If it's going down the usual road, I'd remove XP and deal with augment progression in the aforementioned way. Anyway, mutually exclusive slots have a lot more impact than an XP currency system which only delays the stuff you'll get.
    To lose one parent, Mr Worthing, may be regarded as a misfortune; to lose both looks like carelessness

  14. #139
    Originally Posted by xaduha3
    Yep, once again Adam Jensen is just chatting with someone over the infolink, so much for the 'blank slate'.
    I absolutely hate the infolink conversations. Such a small yet crucial detail.

    Also, I swear the gameplay I just saw was Crysis with third person cover. I especially like the on-the-go weapon customization, the "nano" jargon thrown about to make things seem more techy, and the new armor mode; all that's missing is Jensen whispering "maximum armor" every time he activates it (waiting for the PC mod).
    Last edited by AdrianShephard; 18th Jun 2015 at 03:03.

  15. #140
    Originally Posted by Irate_Iguana
    And here we come to them making the exact same mistake as in HR. Coupling the XP system to fights. Not just that, but rewarding stealth more.
    How do you figure they are going to reward stealth more? Could you explain, maybe I'm not seeing something?

    They were talking explicitly about making combat more viable, but afair, only in the sense of having Adam be more bullet resistant. I don't remember them talking about the xp rewards at all.

    Originally Posted by Salfurium
    But that conspiracy "BS" is the very foundation of the Deus Ex Universe. Without it it would just be another Sci-Fi game of the month with superhumans.
    And I would be okay with that. Piling conspiracies on top of one another is not the only way to tell a compelling story, and anyway, the setting was not what made Deus Ex great for me.

  16. #141
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    Originally Posted by Irate_Iguana

    I haven't seen the inventory. I'm wondering if that is even in the game. Between this menu and the quick menu we see in the demo are they even planning on including it?
    Just asked the director:

  17. #142
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    REMOVE HANZERS remove hanzers
    you are worst people. you are the hanzer criminal you are the hanzer smell. return to ghetto. to our ghetto cousins you may come our contry. you may live in the zoo….ahahahaha ,hanzers we will never forgeve you. hahahaha but *** hanzer stink..hanzer genocide best day of my life. take a load of dead hanzers..ahahahahahHANZERS WE WILL GET YOU!! do not forget human revolution .UNATCO we kill the manderley , UNATCO return to your precious hanzers….hahahahaha idiot agent and hanzer smell so bad..wow i can smell it. REMOVE HANZERS FROM THE PREMISES. you will get caught. UNATCO+NSF+Silouette+Jensen=kill hanzers…you will human revolution/ tupac alive in detroit, tupac making album of detroit . fast rap tupac detroit. we are rich and have gold now hahahaha ha because of tupac… you are ppoor stink hanzer… you live in a hovel hahahaha, you live in a yurt
    tupac alive numbr one #1 in detroit …. the UNATCO ,..k ashol hanzers no good i spit in the mouth eye of ur augs and ghetto. 2pac aliv and real strong wizard kill all the hanzer farm aminal with rap magic now we the ppl rule .ape of the zoo presidant David Sarif fukc the great satan and lay egg this egg hatch and hanzer wa;s born. stupid baby form the eggn give bak our clay we will crush u lik a skull of pig. AMERICA greattst countrey

  18. #143
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    Originally Posted by Avenging_Teabag
    How do you figure they are going to reward stealth more? Could you explain, maybe I'm not seeing something?
    Takedowns give more XP than shooting someone. Most takedowns occur due to stealth.

  19. #144
    ^ Ah yes, indeed, stupid of me to miss that. That is... concerning.

  20. #145
    Originally Posted by FrankCSIS
    I can see why they've opted to depart from realistic firefights to engage a more gameish rendition, but IMO it makes it ever slightly more generic. The change of pace, armor and the slow-mo also gives out a cover-shooter vibe I could do without. I really hope the levels are not too designed around it or affected by it. As much fun as Max Payne 3 might have been, the level design was laboriously massacred by the atrocious cover-shooter addition.
    Combat in HR wasn't realistic. It was clunky and slow. With the way HR was designed and the augs were built there was no way that they were going to pull off realistic combat. Or even an attempt at designing semi-realistic combat. I had thought that they might have at least gotten the cover-shooter combat correct, but proper popping of moles was made impossible by poor pop-up-and-shoot gameplay.

    It seems they have chosen to make some improvements to the cover-shooter side of things and try to fix that for MD. From the looks of the trailer they aren't there yet. In fact, combat looks to be much of the same, with some tiny changes made. I'm still not seeing a fluency of motion, both in and out of cover, and the switch to aimed fire (and movement in aimed fire) still looks incredibly stilted. Be prepared for much more architecture with conveniently placed waist-high barriers.

    HR and MD aren't designed for combat trying to be realistic. Thanks to the augs and maps they are better suited to a more gamey type of combat. To be honest, I'd prefer it if they ripped off Dishonored's combat more. They already have Blink. Make movement more fluid. Give us control over a trained SWAT officer and professional Merc. There aren't any skills to invest in so don't hold back in making Jensen move better.


    Originally Posted by FrankCSIS
    ressources being tied to a non-lethal takedown made the stealth experience far more annoying than the loss of XPs for those who decided to shoot. At least weapons and guns were bloody everywhere to be found, while we had to worry about some damn chocolate bars to take someone down from behind.
    True. At least for the first level and most of the first time in Detroit. Guns definitely had the edge there in easy of use. Especially because you got the silenced and armor piercing 10mm after the tutorial mission. However it isn't long after that you generally have more than enough chocolate and the augs to make recharging faster.

    They had to restrict takedowns in HR because they were ridiculously powerful. They chose the energy system. They should have gone for making them real-time instead of invulnerable cutscenes. Now couple that with better enemy encounter design and you've got a system that will only be broken if you've upgraded most augs. Have AI with a proper field of view. Communicating patrols that can notice missing comrades. Better placed guards. Enemies that try to keep their distance. Blind firing at your last know position and suspected positions. Tactically tossing grenades. It wouldn't fix everything, but it might make sneaking and choking an entire map more a question of skill and less of patience. I mean, it works for Hitman.



    Originally Posted by FrankCSIS
    Speaking of XP, this might be heresy but at this point I'm questioning why augments are even tied to such a system anymore. Considering that in HR, getting all the augs I wanted was only a question of "when", and not "if", why not simply make augment kits as quest items or part of story progression? Personally I would rather reintroduce mutually exclusive slots, to truly respect the idea of choice and consequences in character progression, and get rid of XPs.
    Completely agreed. It is meaningless. Just give out Praxis points at predetermined points and make the player choose between various augs. Players would get a dose of C&C and the developers can plan encounters better since they would have a better understanding of what kind of augs a player might have at any point in the game.


    Originally Posted by Punished_Snack
    Just asked the director:
    Thanks for that. Pretty pleased that the inventory remains. I was pleasantly surprised by the relatively restrictive nature of it in HR. At least more than I thought a triple A game would make it.


    Originally Posted by Avenging_Teabag
    ^ Ah yes, indeed, stupid of me to miss that. That is... concerning.
    That is part of what made people do stupid like hack a console even if they had the password and takedown everyone on a map even though you could sneak past them. Give XP for objectives completed not for the way you play.
    Rule 30: A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.

  21. #146
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    Originally Posted by Irate_Iguana
    Combat in HR wasn't realistic.
    Just to be clear, my reptilian friend, I agree with this, as well as everything else in your post. But when I say somewhat realistic firefights (and not realistic combat mechanics), I mean it in the most literal sense. A limited amount of enemies with guns shooting at you, and basically almost a one-hit-you're-dead kind of system. HR somewhat offered this. Of course it was most definitely not Operation Flashpoint, or whatever simulation-based game one could bring up, but you get the point. This new game is no where near more realistic, because no one can possibly deal with the kind of firefight displayed in the showcased demo. Hence why I said they are largely moving towards a much more gamey experience, and I'm not neceseraily saying this in a negative light.

    The reason I brought it up is because, you will recall, when the Autoregen health issue came up in those forums, René and the dev who was speaking with us at the time (didn't last long), back in '09 or something, specifically discussed in details how and why they didn't want fast-paced, forgiving, shooting sequences. This was way, way before the game was completed. It was a design choice for HR. It's important, I feel, to bring it up, in light of what Mr Dugas now says about action, and how they always felt it needed to be beefed up, because "Deus Ex is not about stealth or action, it's about how you want to play it". I find it interesting to hear this now. I have no real opinion one way or another on which action style is more appropriate, except that it seems this new action style makes it slightly more generic.
    Last edited by FrankCSIS; 19th Jun 2015 at 02:29.
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  22. #147
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    Originally Posted by FrankCSIS
    why they didn't want fast-paced, forgiving, shooting sequences. This was way, way before the game was completed. It was a design choice for HR. It's important, I feel, to bring it up, in light of what Mr Dugas now says about action, and how they always felt it needed to be beefed up, because "Deus Ex is not about stealth or action, it's about how you want to play it". I find it interesting to hear this now. I have no real opinion one way or another on which action style is more appropriate, except that it seems this new action style makes it slightly more generic.
    I dunno. Seems like they thought it okay for Human Revolution but got feedback and changed it. I had no problem with it but it did seem a little clunky. And the fights will probably still be hard, since demos I've seen so far have had cheats on. Granted the Titan shield and time slowing augments do seem to make the combat a bit more boombastic and fast paced.

  23. #148
    Originally Posted by FrankCSIS
    Just to be clear, my reptilian friend, I agree with this, as well as everything else in your post. But when I say somewhat realistic firefights (and not realistic combat mechanics), I mean it in the most literal sense. A limited amount of enemies with guns shooting at you, and basically almost a one-hit-you're-dead kind of system. HR somewhat offered this. Of course it was most definitely not Operation Flashpoint, or whatever simulation-based game one could bring up, but you get the point. This new game is no where near more realistic, because no one can possibly deal with the kind of firefight displayed in the showcased demo. Hence why I said they are largely moving towards a much more gamey experience, and I'm not neceseraily saying this in a negative light.
    Oh, I was totally off the mark for that one. I agree with you that the combat does look much more gamey than before. I don't know how much of that is the result of it being a demo with a suped-up char or how much of it is the new philosophy.


    Originally Posted by vallux
    I dunno. Seems like they thought it okay for Human Revolution but got feedback and changed it. I had no problem with it but it did seem a little clunky. And the fights will probably still be hard, since demos I've seen so far have had cheats on. Granted the Titan shield and time slowing augments do seem to make the combat a bit more boombastic and fast paced.
    Yep. Changed based on feedback and marketing research seems to be the most likely explanation for it.

    I'm not holding my breath that the game will be anymore difficult than HR. There appear to be a ton of new and game-breaking augs in MD. Even without augs HR was depressingly easy, clunky combat notwithstanding. Besides, most modern games are easy on the highest difficulty level.
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  24. #149
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    latest article doing the rounds, fyi.

    Deus Ex: Mankind Divided won't make players feel like they have to choose stealth


    “Having everything behind us is a big, big buff,” executive producer Stéphane Roy told PCGamesN. “Because we know that we need more of this and less of that.”

    There’ll be no fewer opportunities for stealth - but there’ll be more and better support for open combat.
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  25. #150
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    While I was harsh on the trailer's pathetic level of plastic violence (and apparently wasn't alone, enough so that they would immediately comment on this in a following interview), I have no problem of course with more gun-blazing options, providing it works. I am, however, increasingly curious about the incessant flow of PR insisting on this. For a game which was a surprise success by all accounts, it spends a good deal of time apologising for its own identity. I don't recall seeing an immediate sequel trying so hard to distance itself from its predecessor, at least in terms of gameplay.

    The message I read is, you get the same cool universe, but now you finally get to roam about freeballin your cannon like you're the Guns of Navarone. Please excuse our previous lapse in judgement.
    Last edited by FrankCSIS; 8th Jul 2015 at 23:17.
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