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Thread: Concept Art Max better than In-game Max

  1. #1

    Concept Art Max better than In-game Max

    Max in game looks very ordinary and bland compared to the artist's rendering. I would like to see her model tweeked to match the art.



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  2. #2
    She actually looks a bit younger in that concept art, which I don't care for.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by zackdollars View Post
    Max in game looks very ordinary and bland compared to the artist's rendering. I would like to see her model tweeked to match the art.
    I like the look of both of them and appreciate them for what they are.

    Character conceptual art designs, in most cases, always look slightly different than the actual avatar within the finished game. The art concept is a static image rather than a moving graphic, so in effect will look more polished.

    I can remember when Toby Gard first realised the Lara Croft character - the in-game Lara turned out very different from the conceptual Lara.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by EternalAmbiguity View Post
    She actually looks a bit younger in that concept art, which I don't care for.
    The box art version of Max looks prettier. Beauty and youth go hand-in-hand. I don't see an age difference, but a prettier Max would appear slightly younger.

    Quote Originally Posted by julietxjules View Post
    I like the look of both of them and appreciate them for what they are.

    Character conceptual art designs, in most cases, always look slightly different than the actual avatar within the finished game. The art concept is a static image rather than a moving graphic, so in effect will look more polished.

    I can remember when Toby Gard first realised the Lara Croft character - the in-game Lara turned out very different from the conceptual Lara.
    To be fair, Lara was made of 15 colors and 40 polygons. But, I know what you mean. There's no way they would match (although we're getting close technologically). You're also right to notice that these are two distinct versions, unique from one another. They are two different visions for Max. I much prefer the concept art because you see the energy and passion in her eyes. Her hair also has the same energy. Compare this with in-game Max who's eyes and hair are lifeless. I hope this is part of a transformation, and her personality and looks will blossom into the concept art.

    The concept art was what caught my attention, and the biggest reason I gave this game a chance. It wasn't until I played the game that I noticed the stark difference.
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by zackdollars View Post
    The box art version of Max looks prettier. Beauty and youth go hand-in-hand. I don't see an age difference, but a prettier Max would appear slightly younger.
    Um, it's not like the game Max looks 40 or something. Game Max looks about her age, concept art Max looks, quite seriously, like a child. And she's not portrayed as a child, so I don't think she should necessarily be modeled as one.

    It would have been interested to see how a concept Max moved and spoke in real time, but I doubt I would have cared for it--or less so anyway.

  6. #6
    Just want to point out that they use the box art to sell the game.



    And this is what's in the box...

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  7. #7
    Games typically have stylized box art, though the level varies.

    Plus, this is a downloadable game, with, I imagine, all versions have access to in-game screenshots that show the "real" Max.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by EternalAmbiguity View Post
    Games typically have stylized box art, though the level varies.

    Plus, this is a downloadable game, with, I imagine, all versions have access to in-game screenshots that show the "real" Max.
    I agree. But, my point is that the pretty Max is used to get your attention in the ad. They don't use in-game Max to sell it, because she couldn't sell it.

    The goal of any company is to meet or exceed expectations. Dontnod has failed to meet my expectations when the main character used to sell the game is nothing like the box art. (We have the tech to match the box art, just look at Mass Effect's Miranda. It's not a budget issue, either.)

    I enjoy the game overall, but I am disappointed with the main character design. I do like all of the other character designs, though.

    Edit:
    I want to add that I probably would not have bought the game without box art Max. That is what got my attention. That's the main reason I bought the game. (I don't regret buying it, though.)
    Last edited by zackdollars; 9th Mar 2015 at 13:36.
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by zackdollars View Post
    I agree. But, my point is that the pretty Max is used to get your attention in the ad. They don't use in-game Max to sell it, because she couldn't sell it.

    The goal of any company is to meet or exceed expectations. Dontnod has failed to meet my expectations when the main character used to sell the game is nothing like the box art. (We have the tech to match the box art, just look at Mass Effect's Miranda. It's not a budget issue, either.)

    I enjoy the game overall, but I am disappointed with the main character design. I do like all of the other character designs, though.

    Edit:
    I want to add that I probably would not have bought the game without box art Max. That is what got my attention. That's the main reason I bought the game. (I don't regret buying it, though.)
    Oh, I disagree. i think we got the pretty Max :P

    Interesting you bring up ME2. Have you seen the character trailers? Because like 80% of them are abominable CGI that looks NOTHING like the character. And actually, the CGI Miri on the front of the box doesn't actually completely match up (I just pulled out my copy and looked), her face looks different (though it's not near as different as the trailers, or Max).

    I can understand your point, that she is different. But I don't agree that she looks better (she looks a little bit odd to me, while in-game Max is pretty to me), that's subjective. I think the realities of design mean we're going to get a different looking character to concept art in particular (in ME2 it was CGI, actual 3D models, not a 2D image).

  10. #10
    It's a bit of a stretch to say ME2 box art doesn't look like the in-game characters. They are virtually identical. Not to mention that Miranda is modeled after Yvonne Strahovski.

    Also, Miranda's face is not the focus of the box art.


    This discussion has led to another tangent: Is beauty in the eye of the beholder?

    I say it is not.

    If you believe in God, then he does not create ugly things. Love does not make unlovable things.

    If you don't believe, then you can still deduce "defects" that make something ugly. (ie, a scar, a birth defect, etc.)

    I promise to only post 1 response (per 1 reply) for those who care to discuss "beauty", because I know this can blow up.
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  11. #11
    Oooh, I've spent far too much time on the BSN discussing stuff like that :P The face scan for Yvonne was terribly done. The entire lower half of her face looks completely different.

    I agree that her face is not the focus, and thus the change for Max is more drastic. But again I point to the fact that box art is typically stylized, and I want to reiterate that that picture is concept art, which is a huge, HUGE leap from an actual 3D model (which is what Miri had for example).

    Metaphysics within, beware!


    As for defects, those don't necessarily make something ugly. I have dimples, and occasionally in the past someone would say "Aw, you have dimples, that's cute" (usually my grandmother's friends, not a romantic interest :P). As you probably know, dimples are a defect (as one friend of mine would say almost grumpily, if dimples were mentioned). But they are viewed as "cute." You might say the same for a birth mark, or freckles (though I don't believe freckles are defects per se, just associated with too much sun). They may be defects, but they don't necessarily make something ugly. That's just subjective, there's no way getting around that.

  12. #12
    Response to EternalAmbiguity within, beware!


    On another note, I have some ammo for my case. It's Remember Me box art (by Dontnod, in case you forgot).

    Box Art:


    In-Game:


    P.S. Best butt in the history of video games! Good game, too.
    Last edited by zackdollars; 10th Mar 2015 at 02:26. Reason: I had to comment on Niilin's butt.
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  13. #13


    I'll be honest with you, I never actually played Remember Me. Just never grabbed me, though after playing E1 of LiS I do want to go back and try it out. But I have to ask, what are the "aesthetics" of the game world? Do the other characters have that similar type of face, or do they all have "normal" faces? I imagine that whatever the aesthetic was, they stuck with it for everything. I DO know that Remember Me is supposed to be some kind of futuristic atmosphere, while LiS is totally rooted in reality (in Oregon, and I heard someone from Oregon somewhere online say that they recognized the movie drive-in that Warren mentions).

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by EternalAmbiguity View Post


    I'll be honest with you, I never actually played Remember Me. Just never grabbed me, though after playing E1 of LiS I do want to go back and try it out. But I have to ask, what are the "aesthetics" of the game world? Do the other characters have that similar type of face, or do they all have "normal" faces? I imagine that whatever the aesthetic was, they stuck with it for everything. I DO know that Remember Me is supposed to be some kind of futuristic atmosphere, while LiS is totally rooted in reality (in Oregon, and I heard someone from Oregon somewhere online say that they recognized the movie drive-in that Warren mentions).
    Thanks for the debate on beauty!

    The characters are all human, but some enemies are mutated humans. There are some androids with human forms. The location is a futuristic version of Paris, yet much of the Paris we know today exists in that world. It looks modern with some futuristic embellishments. I highly recommend it! If you like Life is Strange, you will certainly appreciate Remember Me!

    It's an action game with a rich story. Play it on "Script Kiddie" (easy) if you just like story. It is one of the best looking games I've ever played. Combat is okay, too.
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  15. #15
    Quite welcome, it's so infrequent that these subjects can be broached online. Glad it could be done here.

    I'm sure I'll enjoy it, I can enjoy just about any game. Just waiting for the Steam sale I suppose...

  16. #16
    I sense a pattern with the advertising of Maxine vs the in-game model. It's clear that Dontnod avoids public exposure of in-game Max.

    This is what you see before you launch the game on Xbox One...



    Maxine's profile is shown blurry with the prettier Chloe in focus!

    This is telling of what I think is a barrier for Dontnod. They are afraid of making a feminine and beautiful protagonist. Nilin's design was confused as is Maxine's. This fear is in contrast to the advertising. This fear certainly impacts the overall game design, as well. I hope Dontnod can let go of this fear and make the protagonist that lives deep down inside of their talented souls. If you look at a movie like Frozen, or a game like Tomb Raider, you see that the public loves feminine and beautiful women.
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  17. #17
    Chloe is DEFINITELY not prettier than in-game Max. You're crazy! :P

    And more seriously, I think you're stretching that a bit. They're focusing on Chloe because she isn't the protagonist. We all know what Max looks like, we know she's the protagonist. But to the new player, the character with the blue hair who ISN'T the protagonist is what will peak their interest, and pulling her out of focus will ruin that. Of course they could have removed the focus effect completely, but it's in line with the cinematic nature of the game (I believe the game also did some depth of field stuff).

    How are you defining beautiful and feminine? Anime-styled?

  18. #18
    Most of the characters in the game have more charisma/beauty than Max (in-game). Dontnod took the "dork" element too far in Max. There are some people who believe that we should love them, regardless of how they behave. They take a stand to defend their nerdy-ness. That's not a lovable person. That's how I see Max in Ep1.

    I don't think I'm stretching it when the imagery is selling a pretty Max without a hint of her being an introvert.

    I do like anime, and the primary reason is the women in anime. I also liked Anna and Elsa in Frozen. They enjoy being women and would never consider themselves inferior due to their femininity.
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by zackdollars View Post
    Most of the characters in the game have more charisma/beauty than Max (in-game). Dontnod took the "dork" element too far in Max. There are some people who believe that we should love them, regardless of how they behave. They take a stand to defend their nerdy-ness. That's not a lovable person. That's how I see Max in Ep1.

    I don't think I'm stretching it when the imagery is selling a pretty Max without a hint of her being an introvert.

    I do like anime, and the primary reason is the women in anime. I also liked Anna and Elsa in Frozen. They enjoy being women and would never consider themselves inferior due to their femininity.
    I think you're conflating two things here: it's one thing to be dorky, but it's something else completely to be pretty. They aren't related. Someone can be quite dorky and still be beautiful.

    I don't think they took it too far. She's definitely an introvert (I'll agree that they don't show it much in advertisement, but how do you?), but she really isn't dorky. Just look at her conversation with Hayden for example. They speak to each other like normal people.

    And for an example of dorkiness, take a look at the kid who calls her his "new muse" (I can't remember his name). He's very much portrayed as a dork, and the fact that he draws her portrait tells me that they're portraying her as something attractive.

    In fact, go back to her conversation with Hayden (that's a great conversation, one of the best so far). He encourages her to join up with the Vortex Club. And take a look at her conversation with...Victoria? The popular girl, can't remember if that's her name. In the matter of a few minutes she goes from being ostracized to grudging respect (and this because of a surrepticious act that Max did, shaming V?? and then helping her. Rather cunning on Max's part). She's hardly a dork, just the "new girl."

    And femininity does not mean "anime." The "anime" look is actually very child-like, it's just that Japan's...sensibilities (such as an age-of-consent of 13) have led to it being used and associated with attractiveness, "moe," all that.

    I'm not against it, I adore Lightning and think Serah is super pretty as well, but it's not "the" defining factor of femininity.

    Edit: and in fact, think about it: in the end, Max gets along with, is accepted by, everyone in the game but the two creepy/unstable people (maybe the principal too). It makes me think of Rachel--I wouldn't be surprised if that's a plot point.

  20. #20
    I agree that a dork can be beautiful. And a dork can be very lovable. But, there is a certain attitude in some people that rejects the will of others. So, there are good dorks and evil dorks. A good dork behaves out of weakness. An evil dork behaves out of selfishness.

    Colbie Caillat's song, Try, represents the evil dork. Colbie says that you don't have to try, and that she'll still love you. That is untrue. Not trying is completely self-centered. That is not love.

    I don't think Max is a pure evil dork. There are moments when I like her. And, I liked the conversations you mentioned.

    I don't like the little-girl anime. I like full grown women anime. Some favorite female characters are Forte from Galaxy Angel, Branwen from Queen's Blade, Casca from Berserk, Sara from Hand Maid May.

    I did hear about a major twist in LiS. We'll have to wait and see.
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  21. #21
    I don't agree that she's a dork, mainly because of what I mentioned.

  22. #22
    Maxine is definitely a dork. Proof!

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  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by zackdollars View Post
    Maxine is definitely a dork. Proof!

    Ha! If she is, so's Shepard.

  24. #24
    Shepard is not a dork, but his fear of appearing dorky makes him dance dorky. Trust me on this.

    Back to my point about Concept Art Maxine...if her face was on that dorky dancing body, I might think it was cute.
    (I know it seems like I'm bashing in-game Max, but I don't dislike her. I just think the concept art is that much better.)
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  25. #25
    Lol. We'll just have to agree to disagree I suppose.

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