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Thread: Class Stacking

Class Stacking

  1. #1

    Limit amount of players in a class in rookie servers

    I have been playing in rookie server from time to time and not often but at time, I see that everyone on a side is the same exact class. I have no problem with that but it just hurts them in the long run. I am just suggesting this since rookie servers are there to help the new players pick up on concepts for the game. For example I think earlier today I found a human team with 3 alchemists and a hunter so I picked sentinel just because I knew they didn't have any air protection. At least incorporate a warning system just to help steer new guys in the right direction.

    Also like to make note especially low level games this is just a rock paper scissors game

  2. #2
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    Yeah, I think there shouldn´t be more than two of one class (seeing 4 sents/4 alchs on a team just makes me go wtf), so I always ask them to swap out as it destroys the balance (nobody wants to be abducted throughout the whole match and thrown around like a volley ball).

  3. #3
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    I wouldn't be opposed to limiting 2 per class in every game, not just the rookie ones. Maybe wait until beta when they add in the fourth classes for each side, but I think it would be a positive change that would make things more competitive. Class stacking tends to pigeonhole teams and leads to less tactical play, so it would make for more exciting games to begin with. Even if it's not added for casual games, I feel like once this game gets a competitive scene (which is one of their goals) then that will be in the rules anyway. Most team based games tend to do this in competitions anyway.

  4. #4
    I feel the same. Was in a group with 3 alch because they "weren't good at FPSs". The other team went all Sent, and I spent my time in game being the basketball in a Harlem Globetrotters game.

  5. #5

    Class Limitations

    I believe that there should be class limitation in game. No matter what class people pick using 3 or 4 of the same class make the match really one sided, whether you losing or winning. Having to play against 3-4 Scouts with war bows or getting Choking Hazed spammed by Reavers makes the matches unplayable. If class limits were to be set to 2 a team people won't have to worry about 3-4 Tyrants dropping in to ruin the party and will also make everyone learn at least 2 classes. Other then this why are the Sents the only nude class why not slap some cargo shorts on them or something

  6. #6
    Disagree, any combination can be effectively countered.

    Sentinels are "naked" because, due to their evolution and "degradation"(lore) they have developed an exoskeleton, which pretty much renders clothing unnecessary, especially since they're only vampire clan capable of flying(more or less).
    They don't want to add up additional unneeded weight and they don't really need clothes because, in comparison, naked Sentinel can pretty much keep up to other clothed vampires, damage-soak-wise.

    And they don't really consider themselves "human" so they don't care about things like shame of being naked or fashion.

    Surely having a premium skin of "non-degraded" Razielim (which IIRC used to be the most beautiful clan) would be a treat, but even if it would be coming, it's still far, far away.
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  7. #7
    Would you rather have matches where players on your team quit out because they want to play Scout and there's already 2 Scouts?

    We're certainly continuing to evaluate class limitation feedback, but thus far no arguments have outweighed the negative impact class limits have on matchmaking and game completion rates.

  8. #8
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    I think having two game modes would make this doable. Much like Counter Strike has competitive and casual modes, you could put something like that into this game. Having a competitive mode with class restrictions would be fine, but leave it open in casual. I think that the competitive scene in the game will probably force these rules to begin with anyway. Limit each side to 2 max of each class and it shouldn't be a problem.

  9. #9
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    Originally Posted by Psyonix_Corey
    Would you rather have matches where players on your team quit out because they want to play Scout and there's already 2 Scouts?

    We're certainly continuing to evaluate class limitation feedback, but thus far no arguments have outweighed the negative impact class limits have on matchmaking and game completion rates.
    This is about one of the only comments that makes me tempted to quit the game every time I hear it. It's like taking a sniper rifle out of a game because people can't cope. Or like taking skips out of Uno because people don't like them. If they can't counter a set-up then let them die. You learn eventually, and that's part of the game.
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  10. #10
    Originally Posted by Smeesh
    I think having two game modes would make this doable. Much like Counter Strike has competitive and casual modes, you could put something like that into this game. Having a competitive mode with class restrictions would be fine, but leave it open in casual. I think that the competitive scene in the game will probably force these rules to begin with anyway. Limit each side to 2 max of each class and it shouldn't be a problem.
    +1, sorry but really you would still have your 2nd choice out of 4 possible classes (4 classes soon anyway) so it wouldn't be so bad.
    personally I think it being a separate game mode like Smeesh suggests is a great idea, I would even go as far as to say it may be even better in this game mode since there will be 4 players and 4 classes limit it to 1 per class.

  11. #11
    Originally Posted by cmstache
    This is about one of the only comments that makes me tempted to quit the game every time I hear it. It's like taking a sniper rifle out of a game because people can't cope. Or like taking skips out of Uno because people don't like them. If they can't counter a set-up then let them die. You learn eventually, and that's part of the game.
    My thoughts exactly. If homogene teams really prve to be op, the answer should be adjusting the reasons for that, but not to enforce artificial locks on gameplay.

  12. #12
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    Here's a thought. Let 4 people run the same class and get worked over until they get better with others. There have been countless games where I've played a class/set-up I'm not that great with just so I can make up for some team weakness. Let those that run 4 of the same class die. It's that simple. It works now, but in beta when team are re-enabled that will get snapped to a halt faster than 2 shakes...
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  13. #13
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    I just think having primary(the one you are best at) and secondary(the one you are decent with) class learned is better so you can always switch to the other one if there are already two of the primary classes on your team.

  14. #14
    Well I do feel that on high level play with VOIP 4 reavers with choking haze and evasion will be quite amazing, you zone out humans with countless chocking hazes, and if you do manage to split them up, few pounces and gtfo evasion for the win.

    Can't say at this point if there will be any possible counters to this, since nobody plays patient like this and coordination is bad w/e VOIP.

  15. #15
    Originally Posted by cmstache
    This is about one of the only comments that makes me tempted to quit the game every time I hear it. It's like taking a sniper rifle out of a game because people can't cope. Or like taking skips out of Uno because people don't like them. If they can't counter a set-up then let them die. You learn eventually, and that's part of the game.
    quoted for truth.
    i feely exactly the same.
    sometimes i switch from my favorite hunter to alchem, becous there is to much tyrants running rampant, sometimes i switch to scout becous there are stupid sents flying high

    as a vampire thour i relly hate rever, sometimes i switch to him, to smoke out with toxic gas ppl out of indoor keep
    and sometimes i switch to tyrant, cous situations arisses

    having more then 2 ppl of the same class is rather not that profitable, comeprable to tactical option of other classes.
    you just need to learn at least basic with evryone and thats it
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  16. #16
    Class limits wouldn't be a bad thing to test while were still in closed alpha/beta. Hopefully once more classes get added people wont want to stack and it all becomes a non-issue.

  17. #17
    Yeah, any sort of arbitrary limitation on any aspect is a dangerous thing. The denial of 'something' without some sort of either 'competitive' reason or just 'sh#ts and giggles* usually tends to be received poorly from more people that it does to satisfy another set of people.

    Sure, play a class that you like regardless of the consequences, I do this myself honestly. Though as long as you are okay with the consequences, by all means go for it. Once the competitive aspect really hits this game, it'll break itself in more ways that you won't predict anyway, always does

    If anything you have a separation for random PuGs and one for tournament-esque players. Sure the tournament people could Team-Stack and smash some 'casuals', but thats just the risk that you taking playing PvP. Though playing with other competitive teams is how you get better and will make them happy. Won't ever work perfectly, but it'll get better.

    Never limit what people might want to play, always leave them enough rope to hang-themselves with....so to speak Adapt or let them be as stubborn as they choose.

  18. #18
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    I think the class stacking issue is over-rated. Everytime you die is a chance to switch to something more effective, and with the squad spawn, you get time to adjust. You see 4 sents? get some close range gear and get inside. 4 Tyrants? longer range gear, and keep wide sightlines. 4 Scouts? hide and flank behind geometry, (Personally I gun for anyone wielding a warbow since it's so easy to spot and rather deadly). 4 hunters? stack CC-breakers. With the coming of 2 new classes per side, there is less reason to implement restrictions. And players who want to be competitive but will only play one class, that's their fault, and shouldn't complain about the flexibility the game offers when they refuse to use it themselves.

    I main sentinel. I will run sentinel unless I see multiple war-bow scouts, or they are in a solid indoor turtle. Now that I have perm take-off, I'm not scared of hunters. I have never had a concern with alchemists except for when (every time) they run right back in to camp you as you're feeding. When sentinel doesn't cut it, I have my reaver with choking haze and leap attack + vanilla skills. I prefer not to play tyrant, and only have vanilla skills, but I can do it well enough to break turtles when no-one else seems open minded enough to realize that in some situations, you just don't have the angle to land good AoE skills without running in.

    I main hunter, but can pull off scout. I rarely feel the need to play alchemist, but I can.
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  19. #19
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    Originally Posted by Psyonix_Corey
    Would you rather have matches where players on your team quit out because they want to play Scout and there's already 2 Scouts?

    We're certainly continuing to evaluate class limitation feedback, but thus far no arguments have outweighed the negative impact class limits have on matchmaking and game completion rates.
    This can only be done I guess if there is a server list (not on the planning if iam correct) so people can run a NOSGOTH server and set it up as they want it. (Limiter yes/no), 10/20/30/40/50/1000 kills victory, Map rotation, game mode (ROtation)
    etc.

    But still this won't come in as far as I know right corey or is the team discussing the option?

  20. #20
    Instead of forcing players to use the different classes, why not add some sort of extra stat boost or added effect to abilities when teams use a mixture of classes? Maybe one Razielim would give a spell recharge boost to the team, or a Zephonim would give 5% extra health to the team, Turelim gives damage resistance etc.

    If those effects are non-cumulative, so that two Razielim gives you no more bonus than one, then in order to take advantage of the other boost types, you need to use other classes.

    In other words there should be team-perks that are only available with different combinations of classes.
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  21. #21
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    Class stacking is cheezy at best. It's less effective than a proper team comp, but it can punish the wrong reaction.

    I hate the stat boost ideas flying around, sometimes it might be required to class stack too pull off some random strat.

    It's because you are forced to die in order to redesign your setup to counter a specific setup, so cheeze will always work since you can't react to class stacking in a sensible way LIKE CHANGING LOADOUT MID LIFE. But it wont be profitable since you'll just counter cheese with cheese making no kill profit.

    Also don't play alc.

  22. #22
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    Here's an idea... pick your class after everyone else so you get what you want...
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  23. #23
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    Originally Posted by Psyonix_Corey
    Would you rather have matches where players on your team quit out because they want to play Scout and there's already 2 Scouts?

    We're certainly continuing to evaluate class limitation feedback, but thus far no arguments have outweighed the negative impact class limits have on matchmaking and game completion rates.
    I would rather have people on my team rage quit because they dont get the class they wanted than have to deal with some overcompensating enemy team Reaver spamming us

    No team is balanced to deal with more than 2 of any class the way its currently balanced any more makes your team either almost unbeatable or completely gimped

  24. #24
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    Oh, it's balanced. The newbie teams may not be able to, but the stronger alpha teams can handle 3-4 of a class. They will just tweak their loadouts.
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  25. #25
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    Originally Posted by cmstache
    Oh, it's balanced. The newbie teams may not be able to, but the stronger alpha teams can handle 3-4 of a class. They will just tweak their loadouts.
    Then explain the full counters to stacking each class and any combo of said stack and individual class

    As it currently stands stacking 3 reavers and a Tyrant seems to be the cheap and easy way that many vamp teams use to force a win

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