Thread: Fan/player reviews - reactions (Spoilerific)

Fan/player reviews - reactions (Spoilerific)

  1. #76
    Originally Posted by robini123
    The Bad: The audio engineers did a poor job. Disembodied dialog... overlapping dialog... repeating dialog... uneven dialog volume that can make it a chore to hear what is being said.
    So much this. This is by far the biggest problem the game has. Nothing breaks immersion like two NPCs repeating the same two lines of dialogue over and over and over again. Overlapping dialogue is kind of true to life, though. Then again, maybe that's the sort of true-to-life stuff we don't want in a video game!

    Have to say, though, The Bank Heist is excellent Thief. If only the main storyline maps were more in that vein.

  2. #77

    Another Thief Review (from an old old fan)

    Today I completed Thief, after three exhausting days of gameplay. I am just going to deliver my opinion and elaborate things a bit more than usual. Not because other reviews are not complete but because I want to express myself regarding this game.... And I want to be thorough.... I mean really thorough....


    From best to worst:


    Graphics/Atmosphere:

    One word. Perfect. Really, everything is spot on. Especially The City. It's dark, it's thematic, it's Thief. No more are the blue-ish environments of TDS. You can see the mist, and the shadows certainly feel like shadows. The mist also adds character and is subtle enough, for someone to not even notice it. The fires, contrasting the shadows, give a nice feeling. You can the pebbles of the road reacting to the glow of the flames, and this seems really nice. The in-game models are also beautiful, but Garrett steals the show (as usual ), Basso and Thief-Taker General. The are amazing. The animations are also very very slick... I just loved stealing stuff and holding them in my hand. I also loved the hands when they appeared. They actually appear only when you are crouched, so it is a very nice indication that you are, without the need to overflow the HUD and break the immersion. I also found them pretty believable, so as one keeps balance while crouching, that way... Pure amazing design there...

    Game Length:

    I think this is the largest Thief game to date. It might have only 8 missions (named as chapters), but each mission, constitutes of many mini-missions. Each one can take to from 30 minutes up to 2 hours for some of the largest ones. However the bulk of the game lands in The City. Basso and some other contacts, give you client jobs. I think the game has 32 of those. Some of them can take quite a while to be reached and completed, so we have another main game here (much more fun than the main - more on that later). If you want more duration, you can try to find all the collectibles (good luck finding them without a guide - it is HARD!!!) and replay whole missions to gather them. If you want to be a true completionist, I can see the game clocking at about 30 hours to you (maybe even more, if you try to achieve all mission goals - not needed though...)

    Artificial Intelligence:
    Do NOT listen to the reviews saying the AI, is bad. The AI is AMAZING. Up until Thief difficulty level, yes you might see some stupid stuff, because the wanted to lower the difficulty level of the AI, so they made it less acute. In Master level, AI is as it should be... Brutal and Unforgiving!!!! Good Job EM! Guards react where they should be, they notice unusual stuff (if you extinguish a torch and they notice it, they will relight it, if you open a door they will search it, if you turn off lights, they will reopen them, if their partner misses, they will notice it), they even hear if you blackjack someone near them (trust me 2 guards near each other is hell....you better just leave them as is). Also even if you stand in total darkness, if they come close to you, they will recognize you, which also makes sense. For me AI is PREFECT! (I really want to see an Iron Man play-through in Master level)

    Movement:

    I know some of you disagree, but for me everything is pretty fluid. First of all the swoop, is amazing and I think this is universally acclaimed. By the end of the game, I was using it nearly in every corner and every knockout. Contextual jumping in not an issue and personally I think its an improvement. Why? First it actually saves you time (from engaging in all of sorts of stupid jumping over books and sacks that lead you nowhere), second it prevents bunny-hopping (which is stupid), third it prevents you from mis-jumping yourself to death and finally it enables some, otherwise extremely difficult, plank jumping. In all the cases you truly need to jump though (e.g. over a crate, or fall of some rails), it performs perfectly. Leaning is also very good. An amazing addition is leaning over the edges of the rails to see whats below. Very useful in some cases. And last but not least, the sprinting. I think it's the best sprint I have ever seen in any game. It has duration and it feels fast. Really fast. I just enjoyed outrunning opponents in the City, feeling I could run the fastest possible. The sprint animation and feel is just pure joy...

    Thieving & Stealth Mechanics:

    Aside from some out-of-this-place puzzles (yes, puzzles...) you have a good variety of stuff to do as a Thief! Lock-picking, Disabling traps, Uncovering hard secret loot and locations, Keyhole peeking, Hiding in Closets, Unscrewing pipes, Exploiting the environment, yes there is greater variety of mechanics than the previous Thief games. I even liked opening drawers and cupboards. The sword is gone (thank god.... at last...), and almost all the arrows are there. However the new arrows are a mixed bag. Blunt arrow is a very clever addition, enabling you to hit buttons from afar. Sawtooth is not though... It pretty much makes the broadhead arrows you have obsolete, since its a better and more powerful version of the broadhead. Its just more expensive to buy. Old fire arrows are now explosive arrows (and they are amazing - you can kill 4-5 guys with one shot - but are way expensive) and the new fire arrows, are a shame, cause they only ignite oil. I actually rarely used them. Gas arrows now just disorientate enemies, noisemaker arrows are throwables and the only tool is the old good flash bomb... Focus is not good and spoils game too much for my tastes, but you can disable it.
    So far so good... The mechanics so far are very very nice.
    However from here on, things need enhancement.The light gem is very oversimplified. Only 3 states, of which the 2 are dark ones and 1 is the light one. The problem is that the 2 dark states are very too much alike... In all the game you will just see either black or white. Which is a huge fail for me. Things could get better if floor played a good sound role. However floor tiles make no difference. Carpet muffles a little the noise, and you need to take care the broken glasses and water which make way too much sound. Most of the time however you just run, not noticing where you are stepping. For me sneaking up a guard is a very easy case. The only hard one, is when there are two or three together... Sneaking is much more light-based than sound-based in this game, which is a shame, because when you are not in a guards cone of sight, only sound plays important role....

    Sound:
    Not much to say here.... Sound is definitely only of average importance as it seems. Some voice acting is bland (Thief Taker-General is pretty awesome though), Garrett's seems out of place sometimes, but I got used to him, some looped conversations and there are some sound bugs, but this is just nitpicking. Actually the best and worst of sound, appear in the same context.... When the guards get suspicious, some specific sound playback starts and its amazing and atmospheric. However when they get fully alerted, the sound gets very annoying. And you are going to hear that sound A LOT! In the latter level, I loathed guards finding me, because I just didn't want the specific music loop to begin.... Ambient sounds, on the other hand (which are heard through most of the game) are well done and liked!!!


    .... as you can see I am very positive with the game,so far... Maybe the light gem is somewhat simple, but I can get by that... Even some sound issues, are not gonna let me not enjoy a good game... So why it had so bad reviews (in my opinion, I would rate the new Thief even lower)? Aren't all these awesome features, recipe for a great game.... As it would seem no... Here the game goes downhill, and mainly to 3 problems.... the horrible story/writing, missions, and the City itself... Please, let me be thorough


    Writing:

    Writing is the least worse from these three. And it's bad.... And I mean BAD bad.... It has some clever moments (
    ) but most of the time the dialogue is uninspiring and laughable beyond extend (
    )

    The story also has it witful moments (Thief-Taker General is surprisingly more well-done than others and satisfying enough) and it tries to make some sense at the middle. But it falls flat... It feels as many parts are missing, some MAJOR plot points are only found through some random documents, you never care why you are in a specific mission or why you went there are at the first place and most of all... it is NONSENSICAL... I mean REALLY NONSENSICAL... It does not make ANY sense at the end. You will want to hit your head against the wall so hard so many times throughout the game. Especially those 'dream parts'....It's mile worse than even a B-Movie plot. In fact it could be the worst plot I've ever seen in an AAA game, or any game whatsoever.... In one case you go to a room full of aggressive mobs and then a 'dream case' comes up, you just walk through it (yes, walk) and then tadaaa, you beat them all, everyone's gone.... And you are like there, watching your PC monitor and trying to understand what on earth happened... And there are just too many of these cases... Stories of impending doom come out of nowhere, you often hear plot points that could just be made up from the people telling them, nothing makes sense almost all of the time, Garrett is gullible beyond reason, you do stuff just because, and etc etc... I think you get the point... In my opinion this story had some good potential..But the writing is laughable.... I mean they stripped all the Thief lore to create this? The Graven Dawn is so lame as a faction, I cannot begin to describe it. And the City Watch, is not even a faction...

    The City:

    I heard some reviewer saying that its the single worst city-hub he has ever seen. And I am inclined to agree.. The good points is that its a big hub, it has roofs aaaand that's it...
    I wouldn't call it a 'rat maze' as it have been called by others, because that would be an optimal case...It's actually far worse than that... First of all ALL places (and I mean ALL), are indistinguishable.... You have no idea if you are in Old Quarter, Auldale or wherever else. TDS's maps were masterpieces compared to this city... All black, and a road below. The layout it a total MESS. And I mean MESS.... Some huge parts of the City, can only be accessed through a window.... Yes a window.... You have to traverse the roofs (and trust me it's hard) to find the specific window that goes inside a small house, that has another windows, that goes to the other part of the City...Some other parts are even worse... If you don't have an objective marker you have to find some planks (and there are a ton of those), to press 'E' (if you had the button prompt on - I didn't) and squeeze through.... I can even begin to understand loading zones because, yes PS3 and XBOX have tiny RAM (which I don't.... Tomb Raider had bigger zones, no loading screens, and was on both systems). But MAKE THEM EASY TO SPOT, FFS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Who on earth designed that? I mean REALLY NOW? This is unacceptable. Is this a million dollar game and you cannot make a proper door? I am really trying to not overreact here, but.... *sigh".... Trying to cover loading zones with plank traversing is not gonna fool anyone... It's gonna annoy everyone though...Maybe open the map then? Map is horrendous.... It's a last resort and you will hate yourself opening it, cause you will bust your head to understand where on earth you are and where on earth the waypoint is supposed to go... And while you are in the city, good luck specifying spots, for you to know which places you've been through and which not. Everything looks the same... Everything....Doors, roads, windows, enemies, boxes, lights, houses, roofs... everything..... And I almost forgot... the verticallity of the City... I understand they tried to make rooftops as a real Thieves' Highway... However good luck going up... You will lose your orientation for sure, sometimes even taking a good while, trying only to find a spot to get down to road level.
    PS: Do not even try to collect all the City loot....Just do not.... You get only a lousy counter of 283 loot in the whole (yes WHOLE) City, and it can take you 20 minutes just going to one place to the other.

    Missions:

    And here's the worst of all.... The heart of Thief... The Thief core... And it's as terribad as you would imagine... It's even worst than the City hub, which I could forgive, because it is optional. But missions, no sorry....I am gonna be harsh on those.... First of all they are no missions (or chapters...), they are simply railroad-simulations... Really there is no free-roaming... The second largest mission is half of the Architect's House (the other half is just action sequences and hallways and pipes and jumping and mantling to one specific direction), which is the size at about 1/3rd or 1/4th of a TDS mission. It could be as small as TDS tutorial, no joke. Other missions are even worse....The 2nd mission for example is hallway after hallway after hallway, maybe even a stair in between. And about 3 or 4 times in the mission you pass a specific point where you cannot return back. Want to go back to get a collectible? Nope, sorry... Need to redo the whole level.... The most redeeming chapter is chapter 6. Half of it.... The other half is a running and jumping level. You will play half a level, as a bad FPS clone of Lara Croft... Ooohh did I mention the magnificent and excellent Prince of Persia mantling sections? Yes... they spent money and resources make something completely out of place, breaking the immersion of first-person, providing nothing whatsoever... There are like 4-5 times you are going to do those, 3-4 minutes each. So the question is why? The time to develop and animate and program those set pieces is illogical, to include them for like, what, 15? 20? minutes? Also indicative how linear beyond comprehension the levels are, is the fact that you have never more than 1 objective. Yes, long gone are the multiple checkboxes of TDP and TMA... Now there only 1 objective, because this is at the end of the hallway. You also never care what the objective is, as long you move forward, you are going to complete it somehow... Stealth skill levels needed? None.... So all those great gameplay mechanics mentioned before? That were good? They have no place to be implemented into... None... Why should I care, stealthing everything, if I can just run to the next corridor. It might take some good tries, and onto the next one... Levels are also uninspiring and badly designed in all other manners too....I've never used more than 10 water arrows in the entire game... And that's bad for a near 30-hour game...... The scary level that was marketed to us? Cheap imitation of the Cradle. Almost like a bad copy-paste. I was scared only once and that was it.... In Chapter 7 you go to a reeeaallly familiar place from the old-Thief games. It is so boring a level both to play and to the eyes, I felt bad for the designers... No more the old Thief magic is here in this modern corridor-simulator....


    My Conclusion:
    It's bad.... It so bad, I will be very surprised if this is not the end of the Thief series....
    Unless you like a cinematic action corridor simulator with nonsensical plot, you will be very disappointed at the very end... Stealth mechanics seem to apply almost nowhere and I can hardly believe you will enjoy anything apart half of Chapter 6...

    What saddens me though, is that it has solid graphics and mechanics. So? So a mod support and level editor could give us fans a reason to keep the Thief legend on... We could even fix the light gem... But no.... Among all the other humongous failures, we have officially no mod support and no level editor.... Great... Dark Mod it is then.... Engine might be a little dated, but it will do....it will do....

    I wanted so bad to like this new Thief. I was very very excited for the new reboot! I wasn't looking back and I was ready for whatever change they would throw at me... But it just fails so hard.

    As a final score: 3,5/10

    For Mr.Roy
    Nope. You said it was a fun game... Thing is, it is an annoying game. Period.

    For Square Enix
    Look at games such as DayZ, Starbound, Banished, Minecraft, LoL etc etc They make more sales than you, spending less money! Do these game have cinematic action? Do they have easy tutorials and button prompts? Flashy animations maybe? Do they even spend thousands of dollars to make fake compound bows? No! People couldn't care less about those... Gameplay is what counts and word of mouth.... I hope your Deus Ex franchise fares better...

  3. #78
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    Originally Posted by Specter
    Hearing the f-word in the game makes me uncomfortable. It just doesn't belong, and reeks of a juvenile mind-set.

    Hearing a conversation about c*ck rings is painfully cringe inducing. How would this seem like a good idea in ANY game? It is exceedingly awkward and out of place. I think many of the problems of this game are mistakes from people who made misjudgements. That said, I think the person responsible for writing this dialog, and the person who approved it, should seriously re-evaluate their career choice. This dialog is the gaming equivalent of the first episode of a new season of American Idol where all the crazies come out to insist they can sing.
    After the game had established the swearing, the conversation you speak of made sense to me, given the penalty for missing jewelry and all. It wasn't just an excuse to say a naughty word. I do think the swearing is ill-placed overall though.
    Originally Posted by bjshepp
    Rihanna Pratchet worked on the writing in if that says anything.

    Anyway, I agree. The swearing really feels out of place and childish, and most of the dialogue seems too simplistic for an elementary school play. Also, the voice acting is some of the laziest I've heard in a while. I'm actually glad SR wasn't involved with this project.

    Some of it, but a lot of it clicks for me as well. There's even a few lines that show the actual cleverness of the writer, though I can't remember what they are off of the top of my head.

  4. #79
    Some of it, but a lot of it clicks for me as well. There's even a few lines that show the actual cleverness of the writer, though I can't remember what they are off of the top of my head.
    Agreed. I really like some of the ambient dialogue you hear, it's the main cutscenes so far where the writing has fallen flat.

  5. #80
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    Originally Posted by Aceyalone7777
    Artificial Intelligence:
    Do NOT listen to the reviews saying the AI, is bad. The AI is AMAZING. Up until Thief difficulty level, yes you might see some stupid stuff, because the wanted to lower the difficulty level of the AI, so they made it less acute. In Master level, AI is as it should be... Brutal and Unforgiving!!!! Good Job EM! Guards react where they should be, they notice unusual stuff (if you extinguish a torch and they notice it, they will relight it, if you open a door they will search it, if you turn off lights, they will reopen them, if their partner misses, they will notice it), they even hear if you blackjack someone near them (trust me 2 guards near each other is hell....you better just leave them as is). Also even if you stand in total darkness, if they come close to you, they will recognize you, which also makes sense. For me AI is PREFECT! (I really want to see an Iron Man play-through in Master level)
    I'm reassured that you had this experience. The streams I've watched display decent A.I. as well, though it can have some really idiotic moments. The worst is that after an A.I. has spotted you, you can still be considered invisible to them when in shadow. Perhaps this is only on normal? But it looks crazy stupid to see a maid get terrified of you, run into the corner, turn around, and conclude you were gone, while staring at her the entire time.

    The time to develop and animate and program those set pieces is illogical, to include them for like, what, 15? 20? minutes? Also indicative how linear beyond comprehension the levels are, is the fact that you have never more than 1 objective. Yes, long gone are the multiple checkboxes of TDP and TMA... Now there only 1 objective, because this is at the end of the hallway.
    It's funny. The E3 demo had you entering the baron's mansion for the 'heart of the lion' and it turns out there's no such thing in the final game (I think?). One objective was an optional one to steal the map from the guard. My eyes lit up at this. Even though stealing the map is an underwhelming goal, I felt that optional goals were an underused idea in the old Thief games--they basically dabbled with it only once.

  6. #81
    The Heart of The Lion is still in the game. It's just not the main objective.

  7. #82
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    Originally Posted by Aceyalone7777
    For Square Enix
    Look at games such as DayZ, Starbound, Banished, Minecraft, LoL etc etc They make more sales than you, spending less money! Do these game have cinematic action? Do they have easy tutorials and button prompts? Flashy animations maybe? Do they even spend thousands of dollars to make fake compound bows? No! People couldn't care less about those... Gameplay is what counts and word of mouth.... I hope your Deus Ex franchise fares better...
    Better than this review are the comments below it.

    The fact that the Bank Heist even exists shows that some people who 'get it' were working on the project.

    I imagine some ignorant person higher up was forcing them to tick boxes, though, and compromising the whole thing.

  8. #83
    well what did i say....i am increcibly disapppointed at this game, 4 years wasted on here :/
    Fiddle-dee dum and fiddle-dee dee The old gray lady is after me She wants my shoes and she wants my skin There's none so small that she can't fit in.

  9. #84
    Originally Posted by Aceyalone7777
    Artificial Intelligence:
    Do NOT listen to the reviews saying the AI, is bad. The AI is AMAZING. Up until Thief difficulty level, yes you might see some stupid stuff, because the wanted to lower the difficulty level of the AI, so they made it less acute. In Master level, AI is as it should be... Brutal and Unforgiving!!!! Good Job EM! Guards react where they should be, they notice unusual stuff (if you extinguish a torch and they notice it, they will relight it, if you open a door they will search it, if you turn off lights, they will reopen them, if their partner misses, they will notice it), they even hear if you blackjack someone near them (trust me 2 guards near each other is hell....you better just leave them as is). Also even if you stand in total darkness, if they come close to you, they will recognize you, which also makes sense. For me AI is PREFECT! (I really want to see an Iron Man play-through in Master level)
    [B][U]
    The AI is horrible!
    I walked around a corner into a guard, He sees me (obviously), He draws his sword with the usual he'll get me line. I turn and run about 4 steps then turn back to fight him he walks right up to my face and stops then says "oh he's gone" in the middle of the street brightly lit and on master level. He then puts his sword away turns away from me pulls his sword back out "I'll kill you" and starts attacking again. As someone else stated the servants do it too.

    The sound is the worst in any game I have played ever and I have been gaming since the late 70's. I can be 3 stories up in a room listening to someone on the other side of a door talk about where some loot is hidden then some guards walk on the street 3 stories below and their dialogue comes through 10 times louder than the ones on the other side of the door. Then it wasn't enough they said it once they have to keep repeating what they said over and over and over again. Like in the brothel, I was upstairs and there was a lot of noise talking and so on and all I did was take one step into an alcove and the entire sound stopped, took a step out and there it was again, The same goes with doors walk through some doors and the whole sound stops.

    What I do like is the levels some are great.

  10. #85
    Originally Posted by auricgoldfinger
    I imagine some ignorant person higher up was forcing them to tick boxes, though, and compromising the whole thing.
    My guess is that this is what happened during the "development hell" period of Thief's production... I'm not going to even being to pretend I know what actually happened, but my speculation is that the original project was scrapped because SE wanted the game to be more accessible so it would make more money whereas what they had been making was much more focused on the Thief fans. This led to the resignations that were mentioned of developers on the original team because of differences in their visions of the game. The sequel became a reboot, new developers were bought in, including Stephane Roy, who insisted that the linear levels were a good thing in the Rev3Games interview because it allowed them to "tell a story". It doesn't strike me that he is a die-hard Thief fan, even if he does have a respectable amount of passion for Thief 2014. He was the senior producer on the game, so probably controlled development since the overhaul so that it fit SE's wider specifications.

  11. #86
    someone explain to me what took them so long, when the story is crap and the game isnt even complete yet, have u seen the sound issues jesus christ,
    Fiddle-dee dum and fiddle-dee dee The old gray lady is after me She wants my shoes and she wants my skin There's none so small that she can't fit in.

  12. #87
    Originally Posted by auricgoldfinger

    The fact that the Bank Heist even exists shows that people who 'get it' were working on the project.

    I imagine some ignorant person higher up was forcing them to tick boxes, though, and compromising the whole thing.
    Maybe Stephan Roy had something to do with it. I heard him talking about how they wanted to add scripted sequences and linear mision objectives for the sake of "telling the story." I'm guessing the Bank Heist mission was developed before he took over and scrapped with the rest of the original concepts so SE just used it to gain more pre order sales from Thief fans. Again this is just a theory.

    All I know is, there had to have been a better version of this game somewhere along development.

  13. #88
    My first impressions after around seven hours of play:

    + When the game allows it, the actual stealth in the game so far has been very solid. While the levels are restrictive, there is a bit of an emphasis on 'room hunting' as I like to call it: where the focus is just on you and a single guard. Of course, you could just club him and lift all the loot, but timing his movements and getting the loot at the right time is immensely satisfying. Some of my favourite moments have been these 'room hunting' ones.

    + The environments mostly have a very good atmosphere. Apart from excessive fog, THIEF puts some pretty snazzy light effects to great use. The ambient soundtrack is also decent and feels appropriately Thief-y most of the time. Graphically, it looks and runs fantastic on maximum settings, although I noticed that turning on SSAA actually makes the fog look even worse while sapping the framerate in busier areas.

    + Despite the narrative focus, my favourite part of the game so far has been the side-missions. They seem to resemble classic Thief more than the story missions: break in, steal something, get out. My main problem would be the difficulty in finding them without a waypoint marker, but we'll get to that later...

    + Lockpicking is a little more involving than the system used in old Thief games. The actual mini game is rather simplistic but demands a bit of patience while also often putting you under a lot of pressure (flickering lamps, etc.). I wouldn't rate it as good as The Dark Mod's system, but it's nonetheless a very tense mechanic when used correctly.

    +/- The city hub. Now, this is a rather mixed bag: on the one hand I like the idea of travelling between missions, picking up jobs and breaking into people's houses; on the other, the map layout and level design is truly abysmal. Without a compass, it's difficult to navigate through the hub unless you have the markers toggled on. Plus, it's often unclear exactly what parts of the environment are climbable and which are not, leading to numerous frustrating moments where I spent several minutes trying to work out exactly how I was supposed to get higher. Breaking into houses is novel at first, but the constant loading zones and lack of any real threat quickly turned it into little more than a routine set of shopping trips; I'm no longer taking a risk here, I'm just shopping for pens and letter openers. So although I like the idea of the hub, the execution is too indecisive and unpolished for me to truly like.

    +/- "Immersive" first-person animations aren't a new thing. Games like Mirror's Edge and Outlast have attempted to have dynamic first-person animation interacting fluidly with the environment. THIEF does have some fairly good animations (lip syncing and T-Rex hands aside) but it utterly fails at implementing them smoothly. The game forces Garrett to move into position to initiate an animation and will rarely, if ever, allow you to cancel out of an animation. As a result, the controls often feel sticky and unnatural and the occasional visual glitch actually does more to hurt my immersion rather than the floating camera of previous games, strangely enough.

    - Story. Now, let me give credit where due: they have made an effort here to flesh out the world. Levels are littered with documents, posters and newspapers to read and special loot often has little bits of lore attached to it. The envrionments also attempt to tell a story in itself, with the ruined buildings and grimy aesthetic. BUT, and this is a very big smelly 'but', the actual writing just isn't very good. The storytelling so far feels hamfisted and utterly devoid of subtlety: everything is told through overblown cutscenes that often don't even serve a clear purpose except to direct the player to a certain event which could've easily just been shown or spoken with a single word of dialogue. Show, don't tell. Do, don't show. Remember? Also, the dialogue is fairly poor as well: lacking in the original's fun and corny heart, it instead just feels detached and lifeless, not helped by the indifferent voice acting. Here's another thing; radiators but no running water. That sounds minor, but it sums up the greater inconsistency within the setting itself: it just seems like an undirected mish-mash of Medieval and Victorian without much thought given to how these elements work together. The magical element has also been distorted from the originals: rather than being omnipotent but subdued, magic has been reduced to little more than a standard plot device with none of the same intrigue as the original. I could go on, but I think you get the idea.

    - The controls in the game are just as bad as I expected: about half the time I was detected was down to the game misinterpreting my commands. Instead of swooping (which is great, by the way), Garrett would instead hoist himself onto a crate and stand there like a clueless pheasant while the guards quickly closed in. While it is possible to fall to your death, there's no need for finesse or accuracy while aiming; if you can see the ledge and press jump then you're pretty much sure to succeed. However, this contextual jumping system often misinterprets where I want to go, so I'll often end up scrambling up the wrong wall or plunge to the ground when I clearly should've been able to make the jump.

    - The level design is excessively linear and restricted. While the game sometimes opens up a little, generally with the side-missions which are essentially just mini-Thief's on their own, most of the story missions are very directed. Granted, multiple paths are usually offered, but it often amounts to little more than a series of contrived routes rather than an organic playground: "the rope arrow route", "the vent route" etc. The simplistic layout also meant that I had little reason to use any of my arrows for anything other than a distraction: rope arrows are one-offs, water arrows are pointless in linear levels and the sound system is practically nonexistent with only loud hotspots rather than surface types. The small levels also makes escape less of an option: in previous games, I might shake off one group of enemies and start working on the next floor or section while they calmed down on the other side of the mansion. Here, even the best levels amount to little more than small collections of rooms that even Dishonored manages to beat.

    So there. Apologies for any typos; it's late and I'm typing this on an iPad. So far, I'd by lying if I said I wasn't having fun with it. At it's best, THIEF is a fairly enjoyable stealth game, but it just ain't a good Thief game in my eyes. It doesn't have the subtle atmosphere and clever writing that makes me return to the original games on a regular basis. I'll probably carry on to the end, but for now, THIEF gets a "Steam Summer Sale" score from me (I don't do 1-10 scores).

  14. #89
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    Originally Posted by knox140
    My guess is that this is what happened during the "development hell" period of Thief's production... I'm not going to even being to pretend I know what actually happened, but my speculation is that the original project was scrapped because SE wanted the game to be more accessible so it would make more money whereas what they had been making was much more focused on the Thief fans. This led to the resignations that were mentioned of developers on the original team because of differences in their visions of the game. The sequel became a reboot, new developers were bought in, including Stephane Roy, who insisted that the linear levels were a good thing in the Rev3Games interview because it allowed them to "tell a story". It doesn't strike me that he is a die-hard Thief fan, even if he does have a respectable amount of passion for Thief 2014. He was the senior producer on the game, so probably controlled development since the overhaul so that it fit SE's wider specifications.
    Here's an idea to make sure Thief 5/THIEF 2's plot is good: make it an allegory and metaphor for the previous game's development.

    Originally Posted by InDIGnation
    My first impressions after around seven hours of play:
    There's a first impressions thread, man.
    Originally Posted by bjshepp
    Maybe Stephan Roy had something to do with it. I heard him talking about how they wanted to add scripted sequences and linear mision objectives for the sake of "telling the story." I'm guessing the Bank Heist mission was developed before he took over, and SE just used it to gain more pr order sales from Thief fans.
    I wouldn't be surprised if Stephane Roy did help bring some newcomers on board. But it's a question of what was lost in order to do that, as much as what was added.

  15. #90
    Originally Posted by auricgoldfinger
    THIEF 2's
    Oh God, if they call it that...

    Originally Posted by InDIGnation
    - The controls in the game are just as bad as I expected:
    Can I suggest you try using a controller, if you have one? Swoop and Climb are 2 different buttons on the DualShock 4, and so far, the controls have been great. Swoop is assigned to X, so it's really easy to use in conjunction with movement. The controls on console are one of the best things about the game for me, so far. Climbing detection issues aside, it feels great. I can imagine swoop and jump sharing a button being really annoying, though.

  16. #91
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    Originally Posted by knox140
    Oh God, if they call it that...
    Hey, they already overwrote the title of my favourite Thief game. Count yourself lucky they might not do yours.

  17. #92
    Originally Posted by auricgoldfinger
    Hey, they already overwrote the title of my favourite Thief game. Count yourself lucky they might not do yours.
    I miss THI4F... It was so awful yet so brilliant at the same time. And so many choices for sequels as well! You have 5HIEF, T5IEF, TH5EF, THI5F, THIE5, THIE5 5... or maybe even THI4F 2.

  18. #93
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    Originally Posted by knox140
    I miss THI4F... It was so awful yet so brilliant at the same time. And so many choices for sequels as well! You have 5HIEF, T5IEF, TH5EF, THI5F, THIE5, THIE5 5... or maybe even THI4F 2.
    Starring Garr2t.

  19. #94
    Voiced by 5tephen Russell, of course.

  20. #95
    Originally Posted by knox140
    Can I suggest you try using a controller, if you have one? Swoop and Climb are 2 different buttons on the DualShock 4, and so far, the controls have been great. Swoop is assigned to X, so it's really easy to use in conjunction with movement. The controls on console are one of the best things about the game for me, so far. Climbing detection issues aside, it feels great. I can imagine swoop and jump sharing a button being really annoying, though.
    I do indeed, although I haven't tried it yet, I'll give it a shot later on.

    Originally Posted by auricgoldfinger
    There's a first impressions thread, man.
    Whoops, my mistake. I'll put it there later; I can't be arsed right now.

  21. #96
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    Reading over that polygon article about troubled development, one line stands out:
    Many programming tricks were necessary to run the current demonstration, like turning off non-playable character AI — the engine has trouble when too many characters are on screen.
    Said demo made it into the final game and we indeed see that the patrons of the brothel are unreactive. Probably the same reason for the small crowds.

  22. #97
    I reviewed the game for a Greek PC gaming site I co-run. In summation, the main points of the review where:

    The Good
    +Solid Stealth Gameplay
    +Highly customizable game difficulty and HUD options
    +Excellent Graphics
    +Surprisingly few bugs, if any at all, even on Day 1 without any patches
    +Online Leaderboards give some more incentive to re-play the game.
    +A.I. reactions in certain situations are a huge improvement over what we've seen so far in the series.


    The Bad

    -Completely indifferent main story/scenario,
    -"Bland" main characters
    -Extremely linear game design that strays away from the established design philosophy of the series
    -Some rather odd control issues (no "jump" button, mashing buttons to open windows etc)
    -The entire FOCUS concept. It might be optional, but nevertheless it should be stressed out how retarded a gameplay function it is.
    -Dishearteningly zero connection to the series' established lore.

    Score: 79 / 100


    PS:





    Seeing that ruined Hammer symbol on the Cathedral crushed my Thiefy soul

  23. #98
    Originally Posted by bjshepp
    I'm guessing the Bank Heist mission was developed before he took over and scrapped with the rest of the original concepts so SE just used it to gain more pre order sales from Thief fans.
    I didn't even know The Bank Heist was a pre-order bonus. Thank goodness I bought the game one day early on PS3!

  24. #99
    Originally Posted by knox140
    I miss THI4F... It was so awful yet so brilliant at the same time. And so many choices for sequels as well! You have 5HIEF, T5IEF, TH5EF, THI5F, THIE5, THIE5 5... or maybe even THI4F 2.

  25. #100

    Thumbs Down Such a great game-SUCH STUPID DECISIONS

    Everything was normal, the birds were chirping, the sky was beautiful, the rivers flowed briskly all until I decided to pick up my copy of Thief and play it on this fine Friday afternoon and decided to play Chapter 7.

    I won't post story spoilers but here's something you should know taffers. I have been playing Thief on the custom difficulty setting with these modifiers:
    *Chapter Saves Only 180 pts
    *No Focus 50 pts
    *Stealth Takedowns Only 50 pts
    *Speciality Arrows Only 50 pts
    *No Food/Poppies 100 pts
    *Expensive Resources 70 pts
    *No Kills/Knockouts 100 pts
    *No Alerts 145 pts

    This adds to a total of 745 pts on the custom difficulty.

    Now here's the icing on the cake (or is it?). I play through all chapters, stealthily, taking my time, everything is smooth as butter and I'm enjoying the game. I reach the penultimate chapter and this game just turns to sloop. I reach the end of this chapter and BAM!..............................boss fight.

    Couple that with a shoddy level design, an overpowered boss with infinite blast arrows, lack of shadow cover, and an escape route that requires you to turn two wheels to open a gate and a lock on the gate that has 6 pins to pick individually (while being hunted by the boss with infinite arrows). Moreover, this encounter is not optional and one blast arrow anywhere in your vicinity either creates flames that provide lack of shadows to hide in, or that kill you.

    Now, I have the "No Alerts" option, the "Speciality Arrows only" option, and the "No Focus" option on. I cannot be detected, I cannot take damage, I cannot use focus for the fight, and I don't have access to Sawtooth, Blast, Broadhead and Fire arrows. How am I to defeat this boss? No wait, the more pertinent question-WHY IS THERE A BOSS?!

    We were told before release that the Eastwick manor escape sequence was the ONLY action sequence in the game. Also, we were assured that a play tester at EM had ensured that the game could be completed with ALL difficulty modifiers on (I'd like to know how he/she did that). So far, not a single heist has gone according to Garrett's way because of forced story elements. And now this broken piece of design is completely stopping me from moving on with the story! Why EM, WHY?!!

    Please make a patch such that the boss fight can be COMPLETELY avoided. This boss fight is even more unintuitive than the bosses in Deus Ex Human Revolution. I'm pretty sure you will hear more about this issue from others playing the game in the days to come.

    /rant over

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