Thread: Fan/player reviews - reactions (Spoilerific)

Fan/player reviews - reactions (Spoilerific)

  1. #626
    oh god nooo, never say that again ! Deadly Shadows is CULT for me ! the glyphs, the gloves, i loved !

  2. #627
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    Originally Posted by vonretic
    although thi4f was not that good,its greater than thief:deadly shadows

    I agree; to an extent.
    TDS still retained the 'charm' of the series; but I found playing it less enjoyable than T1 and T2. With Thief, I enjoyed playing the game much more than I did DS.
    I will play Thief again when the cold, dark nights draw in. I'm looking forward to it.
    I never wanted to play TDS a second time... .
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  3. #628
    For myself, I didn't play the original Thief games when they came out, so my first introduction was Deadly Shadows. I've obviously since played through the originals, however - while I agree it's inferior to the first two games - I don't have the same level of dislike for it that some others do. I enjoy it for what it is, and will occasionally replay all three of them. I do miss the rope arrows in TDS, and I'm not fond of the movement system (third/first person hybrid), yet it still has a special place in my memories as my introduction to the Thief universe.

  4. #629
    Originally Posted by Jito463
    ...special place in my memories as my introduction to the Thief universe.
    Games that introduce you to a good series usually do that. Thief 2 was my introduction back in 2003...picked up the Sold-Out CD for 3 pounds when I visited London...best purchase I ever made.

  5. #630
    ...the glyphs, the gloves, i loved !
    that is one thing that I liked about TDS,the story and the other being the animation for when I was throwing unconscious bodies down the stairs
    (it feels so great its like leaving fridges on someones bed in Deus Ex HR)


    TDS still retained the 'charm' of the series; but I found playing it less enjoyable than T1 and T2. With Thief, I enjoyed playing the game much more than I did DS.
    it still keeps the charm,but the problems I had with it was some mechanics not working and whenever I played it the AI would be so clever that sometimes he could never attack me,never seeing me,never dying(I've killed an NPC in all the ways possible),always being stuck,sometimes to the point where my game crashed and it was not just me who would get those errors/glitches/bugs
    I've quit to play the game till the end,to finish it,after I've completed Robbing the Cradle.

    Thief 2 was my introduction back in 2003...picked up the Sold-Out CD for 3 pounds when I visited London...best purchase I ever made.
    same here,just that I brought it the moment it came out

  6. #631
    Originally Posted by Adrian Shephard
    I think we'll see an "open letter to the fans" type ordeal in a year or so just like what Io-Interactive has done with Hitman. Thief has too passionate of a fanbase to be swept under the rug and the series definitely isn't dead/dying gameplay wise (unlike COD, etc).

    If they do come out with an open-letter, EM is going to have to accept the criticism directed toward the reboot and announce the return of Russell (and maybe Brosius) since Garrett was widely criticized by fans and reviewers alike. With gameplay and level design, EM must essentially promise to go back and build off the elements that made the original Thief games classics.

    This is the only way I see the Thief series continuing on. Without EM being honest to us and themselves, we may never experience new Garrett adventures.
    Nope, not gonna happen.

    The day eidos admits that thief is an ill conceived, crock of cobbled together half ideas is the day they release the full level editor (ie never...gonna...happen)

    Thief can continue on, in the same regard as we just witnessed, with a complete disregard to anything that really mattered.... And what's more, now that SE is wanting to concentrate on MMOs we will likely see a poor deus ex sequel that tries to out do the mediocrity and averageness that is watchdogs, followed by a poor multiplayer thief... Or no thief at all

    Please please please just give us what we want: thief 2 updated with a new story.
    Thief 5 creation instructions: Play thief 2, play again, pay UDK4 or idTech 6 licence, employ engine programmers who are able to code jumping physics, listen to fans not ubisoft

  7. #632
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    Originally Posted by taff
    Please please please just give us what we want: thief 2 updated with a new story.
    I don't want that. I still consider Thief 2 to be the relative worst game in the franchise, and the fact people still grasp on to that unambitious, half cobbled together mess as the pinnacle baffles me as much as it did in 2000. It's a game that took three steps back, and people cheered it.
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  8. #633
    Still a better game than TDS or Thiaf though.
    "I can see only one good thing coming from a Thief 4. Mark my words on this one. It will make people love Deadly Shadows." -Digital Nightfall (4/4/2008)

  9. #634
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    Originally Posted by brethren
    Still a better game than TDS or Thiaf though.
    So says you, so disagrees I intently. I'll easily put Thief 2014 and DS ahead of Thief II any day of the week.
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  10. #635
    Originally Posted by Master Taffer
    So says you, so disagrees I intently. I'll easily put Thief 2014 and DS ahead of Thief II any day of the week.
    Wow...really? Come on buddy...

    Thief II is closer to TDP than DS or Thief 2014.

    Much closer.

    It's a game that took three steps back, and people cheered it
    A couple of side steps at best...

  11. #636
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    Originally Posted by Adrian Shephard
    Wow...really? .
    Of course really. He's an individual sharing his preferences.

    Taste will always be subjective. We must be content to be taffers that agree to disagree. Then there is honour amongst thieves.
    For me, T1 and T2 remain my favourites. Thief is next in line, and DS is last.

    Yes, really.
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  12. #637
    It's hard to compare and in the end, I just go level by level. To me, nothing in either TDS or Thiaf can compare with levels like S/R, Trail of Blood, and Life of the Party. TDS got close with The Cradle, but nothing in Thiaf connects with me the way those levels do.

    That said, Casing/Masks is a disaster, and Running Interference is probably one of the more boring levels in all the games. So, like I said, as a whole, it's hard to judge. I also happen to like Soulforge and The Bank levels, but I know I'm in the minority there.
    "I can see only one good thing coming from a Thief 4. Mark my words on this one. It will make people love Deadly Shadows." -Digital Nightfall (4/4/2008)

  13. #638
    Originally Posted by Viktoria
    Of course really. He's an individual sharing his preferences.
    Of course he has his opinion. Just surprised, that's all. That may be the first time I've seen someone dislike Thief II to that degree, though I haven't been lurking Thief boards for a long time.

  14. #639
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    Originally Posted by Adrian Shephard
    Wow...really? Come on buddy...
    Yeah, really. Thief II is an example of regressing in design to play it safe. It's contextual narrative sucks, it's bugged to hell, it makes no major additions or refinements to the formula, what tools it adds are superfluous at best, it's aesthetic annoys me to crap, and it cut off the sense of mission variety present in TDP project as if it was cancerous tumor. It doesn't even execute on the central premise of being a Thief; you spend the game feeling more like a private investigator with a kleptomania problem than proper larceny.

    Hell, everyone likes to hold up First City Bank and Trust as a grand example of level design when it suffers from identical problems Thieves Guild had, which is generally reviled. Shipping...and Receiving is a complete slog, Casing/Masks are sloppy messes, Sabotage at Soulforge is infuriating, and the majority of the missions are a complete slog and a half. I only really like three missions in the entire game (Life of the Party, Framed!, and Trail of Blood).

    Thief II has it's merits (it certainly has my favorite mission in the series, Life of the Party) and I do love it, but I love the other three entries far more.
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  15. #640
    Originally Posted by Master Taffer
    It doesn't even execute on the central premise of being a Thief; you spend the game feeling more like a private investigator with a kleptomania problem than proper larceny.
    You have a point there, but I think Thief 2014 suffers from the same problem.

  16. #641
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    Originally Posted by taff
    Please please please just give us what we want: thief 2 updated with a new story.
    I guess the moral of this tale is you can't speak for others...

    Originally Posted by taff
    Please please please just give me what I want: thief 2 updated with a new story.
    So duly corrected.
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  17. #642
    Originally Posted by Master Taffer
    It doesn't even execute on the central premise of being a Thief; you spend the game feeling more like a private investigator with a kleptomania problem than proper larceny.
    Isn't that exactly what you end up doing in THIEF? Putting aside the fact that you're never required to actually steal much in THIEF, most of what you're stealing is cutlery and pens rather than valuable vases and gold. I'm not trying to say you're wrong about Thief 2, I just find this statement a bit odd.

    Personally though, I'd easily put Thief 2 well above THIEF and Deadly Shadows, but probably quite a bit lower than the original Thief. If there's one thing I do agree with, it's that Thief 2 wasn't particularly ambitious or innovative compared to Thief 1. That's also why I disagree with people who say "just make Thief 2 again, but with better graphics", since that goes against what made the original so memorable to begin with.

    However, while Thief 2 perhaps lost some of the original's mystery and atmosphere, I still think it has some of finest missions in the entire series. The only missions I outright disliked would probably be 'Precious Cargo/Kidnap' and 'Sabotage'. Yes, I even like some that others hate like 'Shipping', Trace the Courier' and 'Casing/Masks'. Besides, the original had it's weaker moments as well (looking at you, Thieves' Guild).

    But there's not really much point in debating it, since you and I clearly have different tastes when it comes to the Thief series. Personally though, I would probably rank each game like this:

    The Dark Project [ 1 - - - - - - - - {} ]

    The Metal Age [ 1 - - - - - - - {} 10 ]

    Deadly Shadows [ 1 - - - - - - {} - 10]

    THIEF [ 1 - - {} - - - - - 10]

  18. #643
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    Originally Posted by InDIGnation
    But there's not really much point in debating it, since you and I clearly have different tastes when it comes to the Thief series.
    Everyone does.



    Personally though, I would probably rank each game like this:

    The Dark Project [ 1 - - - - - - - - {} ]

    The Metal Age [ 1 - - - - - - - {} 10 ]

    Deadly Shadows [ 1 - - - - - - {} - 10]

    THIEF [ 1 - - {} - - - - - 10]
    Same here. But I am torn between DP and MA. Sometimes I think DP is better than MA; and vice versa; for different reasons. So I usually think its fairer for me to rank them both equally most of the time.
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  19. #644
    Originally Posted by Viktoria
    Same here. But I am torn between DP and MA. Sometimes I think DP is better than MA; and vice versa; for different reasons. So I usually think its fairer for me to rank them both equally most of the time.
    I think if I were asked to rank them in terms of how fun they were, then I'd probably put TMA just above TDP, for the more sandbox-y level design. However, I prefer to list games by how memorable or absorbing they are, because not every game is fun (the Silent Hill series for example), so by that merit TDP is better than TMA in my eyes.

  20. #645
    Originally Posted by Master Taffer
    Shipping...and Receiving is a complete slog,
    I know it all comes down to personal preference, but what didn't you like about S/R? It's one of my favorite levels, just because it's huge and there's a ton of thieving to do and it's wide open and kind of sandbox like. There are dozens of little subplots between introducing the Mechanists, Cptn. Davidson and the Spice, The Rampone Brothers, Gilver and re-routing shipments, the fall of the Hammerites, plus all the individual tenant's stories. There are a ton of AI to deal with, and a myriad of ways to approach the mission.

    To me, it was just this great big playground for thieving and I think the first time through it took me like 6 hours to finish. As an individual mission, it represents a lot of what I love about the original Thief.
    "I can see only one good thing coming from a Thief 4. Mark my words on this one. It will make people love Deadly Shadows." -Digital Nightfall (4/4/2008)

  21. #646
    Ran into this article just after I posted, had to chuckle a little at the title given the current conversation. Just for you, MT:

    Thieving Nostalgia - Why Thief II: The Metal Age is One of The Best Games of All Time
    "I can see only one good thing coming from a Thief 4. Mark my words on this one. It will make people love Deadly Shadows." -Digital Nightfall (4/4/2008)

  22. #647
    I agree with brethren, S/R is a great level and TMA is a great game. Sometimes it may go a bit overboard with the non-linearity- the Ambush map is kinda ridiculous and it & Trace the Courier are the only missions I Ctrl+Alt+Shift+End my way through when I play... But give me that over Dust to Dust any day.

    And I don't get the hate for the bank at all. I think it's actually one of the best levels in the entire series.

    Originally Posted by Master Taffer
    it makes no major additions or refinements to the formula
    To a formula that works, you might add. And the changes it did make were actually "refinements", while the changes made by Thief 2014 were, for the most part, unwanted- you could make a strong case for the contextual movement system, for example, being objectively bad for gameplay. Also, I find the idea that something has to be different to be good ridiculous.

  23. #648
    I don't think going back to a formula that works just one time is a bad thing at all. I suppose it might get old if you did the same game 3, 4, 5 or more times, but I remember not wanting any any drastic changes to the Thief formula after TDP came out. T2 was just different enough because of the switch of major factions (Mechanists for Hammers) and the aesthetic (medieval to victorian).
    "I can see only one good thing coming from a Thief 4. Mark my words on this one. It will make people love Deadly Shadows." -Digital Nightfall (4/4/2008)

  24. #649
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    Originally Posted by brethren
    Ran into this article just after I posted, had to chuckle a little at the title given the current conversation. Just for you, MT:

    Thieving Nostalgia - Why Thief II: The Metal Age is One of The Best Games of All Time
    I agree with this article.

    "First city bank" and "life of the party" are my favourite missions from any game ever.

    It's just great to find a new smart route with every replay.

  25. #650
    Originally Posted by brethren
    I don't think going back to a formula that works just one time is a bad thing at all. I suppose it might get old if you did the same game 3, 4, 5 or more times, but I remember not wanting any any drastic changes to the Thief formula after TDP came out. T2 was just different enough because of the switch of major factions (Mechanists for Hammers) and the aesthetic (medieval to victorian).
    I think making an iterative sequel is something you can only really get away with doing once, otherwise you'll just end up Assassin's Creed-ing it.

    Having said that, I felt that Deadly Shadows deviated in several areas where it wasn't necessary: there's a difference between making changes to move the series forward, and just being different for the sake of it. In my honest opinion, though, I would've preferred that Thief was left alone after Deadly Shadows and developers just took the formula and explored new directions with new IP.

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