Thread: Official Thief Soundtrack / Music / Composer - Luc St.Pierre - NEW "Firequake" ?

Official Thief Soundtrack / Music / Composer - Luc St.Pierre - NEW "Firequake" ?

  1. #151
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    As dromeder ( i used Dromed and irelease FM for it) also i can say that Bufford use 4 files as athmosphere not much..
    the rest is immagination

    what you liked of Bufford..tell me about the athmosphere...? "inside at last "

  2. #152
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    Originally Posted by knox140
    Missing the point.
    I think the only point being made is that you would like the soundtrack for the new Thief game to be similar to or exactly like Brosius's music.... and, if this was the case, the game would be better too. Right?
    Plenty of Brosius' scores weren't mystical- Bafford's manor, for example. That is one of my favourites.
    Sure, but I said there is LESS call/opportunity... not that there is none.
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  3. #153
    Pretty much. It isn't that the game as a whole would be better- orchestral soundtracks have their place- but it would be a better THIEF game. For me, at least, Brosius' tracks have always been a defining feature of the games. I am sure this game would feel a lot more like Thief if they got the soundtrack closer to his work. Maybe the OST fits better with EM's vision of Thief, but as has been established... EM's vision and many of the fans' visions are pretty different.
    @Hawk,

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u21Q01FEHSo

    It's the bit starting at 0:50... Really creepy and amazing

  4. #154
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    Originally Posted by knox140
    Pretty much.
    Yeah, pretty much everything you state is subjective.... and I happen to share your taste. Lets move on.


    Maybe the OST fits better with EM's vision of Thief...
    Yeah, that is what I said....

    Bringing it back to the point I was making... I don't agree that video game composers today must "play" the game first in order to understand what they must do.
    Do you know of any who do this?
    What they do need to do is carry out research to supplement instructions... and Luc did just that.

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  5. #155
    bro viktoria my lady in my field i have to try out the build before doing anything because its unknown what kind of would get into design teams mind and catch the mood yanno
    bro in eidos i trust

  6. #156
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    Are you a professional?
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  7. #157
    Yeah, that is what I said....

    It doesn't make it OK, though... Yes, generic orchestral soundtracks fit better with generic action cutscenes than ambient synth does, but is that an excuse for either of them to be there in the first place...?

    Besides, cutscenes aside, the Brosius style would still be better for the in-game music. As I said before, the interchangeable cues make everything sound the same, whereas Brosius' music all sounds different and unique.

    Bringing it back to the point I was making... I don't agree that video game composers today must "play" the game first in order to understand what they must do.
    Do you know of any who do this?
    What they do need to do is carry out research to supplement instructions... and Luc did just that.



    Well, I don't know any composers, but the ones I follow on Twitter who make music for video games (Danny Baranowsky, Darren Korb, Jimmy Hinson etc.) all play a lot of video games.

    Besides, you're misunderstanding my point. Luc wouldn't need to play the Thief 2014 game before he composed for it, what he WOULD need to do is play the original Thief games to get an idea of the style of ambience he's trying to emulate. You can only get the whole Thief experience by actually playing the game- watching someone else play it isn't nearly as immersive, so understanding how the music contributes to atmosphere is more difficult- and that is the least I would expect him to do if he hoped to write a soundtrack that could compete with Brosius. Especially since, as he stated in the interview, he hadn't had any experience writing music for video games before.

  8. #158
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    Originally Posted by knox140
    It doesn't make it OK, though...
    I never said it did.

    Yes, generic orchestral soundtracks fit better with generic action cutscenes than ambient synth does, but is that an excuse for either of them to be there in the first place...?
    Is there supposed to be an excuse? It was a decision made, be it right or wrong, good or bad... depending upon the tastes and preferences of who is listening.
    Out of curiosity... I just checked a selection of YT videos to gather statistics from those who are actually listening; and it seems the VAST majority like the music, rather than dislike. So I guess it must be more right than wrong. Please check yourself to confirm.


    Well, I don't know any composers, but the ones I follow on Twitter who make music for video games (Danny Baranowsky, Darren Korb, Jimmy Hinson etc.) all play a lot of video games.
    You don't know any... exactly my point.
    People play games in their spare time. It isn't a prerequisite.. Not all composers play games.... in fact, I bet very few do simply due to lack of "spare time to waste" and because playing a game isn't as "creative" or as much fun for them as composing music.


    Besides, you're misunderstanding my point.
    I'm not. You stated that listening/watching the original games would not be enough and that the composer needed to, I quote, "AT LEAST play" the game he is composing for.
    And I disagreed with this.

    so understanding how the music contributes to atmosphere is more difficult- and that is the least I would expect him to do if he hoped to write a soundtrack that could compete with Brosius. Especially since, as he stated in the interview, he hadn't had any experience writing music for video games before.
    Luc is a professional, his passion began at 6 years old, and I expect he knows a lot more than you do about how music contributes to atmosphere... irrespective of whether he has ever wrote music for a video game before.
    The fact is, he was instructed to write the music for Thief - and not for the previous games.
    What makes you think he wishes to "compete" with Brosius anyway?
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  9. #159
    I'm just wondering if it would be possible at all to hear anything that Paul Weir did.Apparently when the trailer came out his audio was different.Does anyone know if we will get to hear anything he done.
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  10. #160
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    Why not give him a tweet and ask? No harm in asking.... he'll either say yes or no.
    https://twitter.com/earcom
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  11. #161
    I agree. Just like how we get to see visual concept art for the game, it would be nice for EM to show us what audio concepts he did or contributions he made.

  12. #162
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    Yeah, this is a proposal to put to our new CM I expect.... if Paul can't oblige.
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  13. #163
    i think in around 10+ years we will see/hear the original soundtrack of the game and the unreleased trailer
    now not even the makers of the original trailer are allowed to use some scenes, not even screens(!!) for their demo reels (i texted with some guy who was one the project. he also said that they changed garretts look right after the leak in 2012)

    square enix seems very sensitive to leaks

  14. #164
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    Originally Posted by Domey
    (i texted with some guy who was one the project. he also said that they changed garretts look right after the leak in 2012)

    So this guy is credible? You mean he was on the dev team?
    In what way did he say they changed Garrett's look?
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  15. #165
    Originally Posted by Viktoria
    You don't know any... exactly my point.
    People play games in their spare time. It isn't a prerequisite.. Not all composers play games.... in fact, I bet very few do simply due to lack of "spare time to waste" and because playing a game isn't as "creative" or as much fun for them as composing music.
    I know people who compose for movies and television. I have composed for a shortfilm myself.

    If the film maker doesn't care and just wants some generic sonic wallpaper, then they can tell you that the cue has to be 30 seconds long and it's a dramatic moment or an action scene. If they really care about their work and want to make an emotional connection to the audience, then the composer HAS to watch what they're expected to score.

    Similarly, it greatly helps a creative person to be immersed in the thing they're supposed to be creating for.

    Like I said though, it's possible to create something without having seen or played it but it's not likely to evoke the same feelings and atmosphere as it would if the creator had been given a truly engrossing experience.

    That's how I write music anyway. Inspiration comes first and failing that, you can fall back on your training and theory to get you out of a tight spot.

  16. #166
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    Originally Posted by New Horizon
    ...then the composer HAS to watch what they're expected to score.
    Yes, and Luc explains that he did this.
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  17. #167
    Originally Posted by Viktoria
    So this guy is credible? You mean he was on the dev team?
    In what way did he say they changed Garrett's look?
    no the guy worked for goldtooth creative - they made the trailer.
    quote: "the original was leaked by an artist long before it was finished. they changed the look of Garret after that"

    if you look closely to the out of the shadows trailer you clearly can see that
    Edit: @Viktoria it's also written in the art book

  18. #168
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    Oh right, I understand now. My bad.
    Yeah, I was interested to know in what way they changed Garrett's look other than what EM explained about removing the black fingernails and eyes.
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  19. #169
    Originally Posted by Viktoria
    You don't know any... exactly my point.
    People play games in their spare time. It isn't a prerequisite.. Not all composers play games.... in fact, I bet very few do simply due to lack of "spare time to waste" and because playing a game isn't as "creative" or as much fun for them as composing music.
    Interesting comment. I would've thought that a composer with even the slightest interest in the medium they're composing for would be using their spare time to absorb that medium a little. While watching a film or playing a game isn't exactly inherently "creative", it can still expand your knowledge of the medium while opening your eyes to new horizons when it comes to scoring a soundtrack. In other words, you can still learn new things by watching a movie/playing a game.

    Also, for the record, I don't think 'watching' a game on YouTube counts as absorbing the medium, because you're not actually experiencing the game as it was meant to be experienced.


    Originally Posted by Viktoria
    Bringing it back to the point I was making... I don't agree that video game composers today must "play" the game first in order to understand what they must do.
    I think playing the game they're composing for first would be extremely helpful for working out how to shape the soundtrack around the rest of the game, especially if it has several scripted sequences. I'm not sure if this is done in the industry, but playing the game first seems like a no-brainer to me.

  20. #170
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    Originally Posted by InDIGnation
    I would've thought that a composer with even the slightest interest in the medium they're composing for would be using their spare time to absorb that medium a little.

    Yes, he did that.

    In other words, you can still learn new things by watching a movie/playing a game.
    Yes, it was never argued that you couldn't learn things this way.


    Also, for the record, I don't think 'watching' a game on YouTube counts as absorbing the medium, because you're not actually experiencing the game as it was meant to be experienced.
    So you're saying that he needn't have bothered watching the original games?


    I think playing the game they're composing for first would be extremely helpful for working out how to shape the soundtrack around the rest of the game, especially if it has several scripted sequences.
    The game he composed for wasn't finished, so how could he play it?
    I'm sure he was given everything he needed in order to compose the music around the game and scripted sequences, no?
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  21. #171
    Is there supposed to be an excuse? It was a decision made, be it right or wrong, good or bad... depending upon the tastes and preferences of who is listening.
    Out of curiosity... I just checked a selection of YT videos to gather statistics from those who are actually listening; and it seems the VAST majority like the music, rather than dislike. So I guess it must be more right than wrong. Please check yourself to confirm.


    There are a whole number of things wrong with citing YouTube like/dislike ratios as evidence here.

    -Bias. The people who will go out of their way to look up YouTube videos for the soundtrack will do so because they liked it. It isn't a good representation even to begin with.

    -Most of the people who played this game haven't played the originals. There is no reason why they SHOULD have anything against the new soundtrack.

    -This isn't a question of whether people like the new soundtrack, it's a question of whether they prefer it. You can like St. Pierre's work but still prefer Brosius.

    You don't know any... exactly my point.
    People play games in their spare time. It isn't a prerequisite.. Not all composers play games.... in fact, I bet very few do simply due to lack of "spare time to waste" and because playing a game isn't as "creative" or as much fun for them as composing music.


    I don't know any composers for games full stop, I didn't say I don't know any who play games. I can't comment on whether the majority play games or not, and unless you know any, neither can you. I can say that the three I follow on twitter, whose music has been critically acclaimed (the Bastion and Binding of Isaac soundtracks are VERY popular), play games all the time, tweet about them, and even stream them on Twitch.


    I'm not. You stated that listening/watching the original games would not be enough and that the composer needed to, I quote, "AT LEAST play" the game he is composing for.
    And I disagreed with this.

    I was talking about the originals. Listening to/watching THEM isn't enough when he's composing for a remake/sequel/reinventation whatever. Besides, you're misquoting me, what I actually said was:

    "it would be difficult to find a composer who really knows the Thief games, except the obvious one, but he could have at least played them."

    As I said, I'm not talking about the new game.

    Luc is a professional, his passion began at 6 years old, and I expect he knows a lot more than you do about how music contributes to atmosphere... irrespective of whether he has ever wrote music for a video game before.
    The fact is, he was instructed to write the music for Thief - and not for the previous games.
    What makes you think he wishes to "compete" with Brosius anyway?


    There is no need to dismiss my opinion like that just because I'm not a composer.

    The fact is, Viktoria, that Thief is a franchise of games. A franchise of games with a huge fan base and legacy- and one of the things people liked and praised most about these games is the haunting and chilling music that contributed so much to the atmosphere that is arguably unrivalled in any other franchise to date. So I highly doubt that EM instructed Luc to do anything other than "write music that would belong in a Thief game" for the ambient soundtracks, because if they did, then it is a sign that they are both stupidly throwing away one of the best aspects of the originals, and ignorant of what made the Thief games what they were.

    Gameplay-wise, the classic games and new game are similar enough that the same type of music would fit well for both. That is why I think Luc was trying to emulate Brosius, as well as the fact that he considered soliciting his help to write the soundtrack, and the fact that, as InDIGnation said, there are moments when the game DOES sound Brosius-like. The only difference between Luc's soundtrack (minus the misplaced orchestra) and Brosius' soundtrack is that Luc's is less interesting and less memorable. Say that's "just my opinion" if you must, BUT, it is the opinion of a lot of other people as well, and there are varying degrees of subjectivity.

  22. #172
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    Originally Posted by knox140
    The fact is, Viktoria, that Thief is a franchise of games. A franchise of games with a huge fan base and legacy.
    And?

    The Hitman series, one long revered for its musical scores by Jesper Kyd, changed its soundscape every game to fit each entry's tone and setting. It ranged anywhere from dark to epic as needed. Jesper Kyd composes his scores to fit the setting, tone, and characters in every game he makes, regardless of what he did in previous entries. That's the mark of a good composer to me; someone who makes his score for what is needed instead of copying those who came before. St. Pierre created a score appropriate for this game and setting, and having listened to it raw and in game multiple times it fits appropriately.

    And I don't want to hear the "But the previous three kept it the same" excuse, because not only is that not true (all three scores in the original Thief games changed game to game), but it's irrelevant. Be this a reboot or jump forward in time, this is a new era in The City. It has a different feel and tone, so a new score is appropriate to fit the setting.

    At the end of the day, all I'm truly seeing here is a complaint that St. Pierre isn't Brosius. If that is either the overtone or undertone, then I give no respect to the argument.
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  23. #173
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    Originally Posted by knox140
    You can like St. Pierre's work but still prefer Brosius.
    Sure. I never said otherwise.

    I don't know any composers for games full stop. I can't comment on whether the majority play games or not, and unless you know any, neither can you.
    I didn't say I know, I said 'I bet'... ie. I was speculating over the lack of spare time and preferred passion for composing music rather than playing games.
    But it matters not. Returning to my one and only point, a video game composer doesn't have to play the game they are composing for.

    I was talking about the originals. Listening to/watching THEM isn't enough. Besides, you're misquoting me, what I actually said was:
    "it would be difficult to find a composer who really knows the Thief games, except the obvious one, but he could have at least played them."
    I may have not had your words in the original order, but they say the same thing. My point stands. No game composer has to "at least" play the game.

    There is no need to dismiss my opinion like that just because I'm not a composer.
    There is no need to take my response so personally. The fact is, you are not a composer and have not studied music to his level. So my point stands, I expect he knows more than you.


    The fact is, Viktoria, that Thief is a franchise of games. A franchise of games with a huge fan base and legacy- and one of the things people liked and praised most about these games is the haunting and chilling music that contributed so much to the atmosphere that is arguably unrivalled in any other franchise to date.
    Preaching to the choir.

    So I highly doubt that EM instructed Luc to do anything other than "write music that would belong in a Thief game"
    Sure, EM discussed with Luc what they wanted for this game. He explains this in his interview.

    That is why I think Luc was trying to emulate Brosius, as well as the fact that he considered soliciting his help to write the soundtrack,
    He didn't want his help in the sense that he wanted to emulate Brosius; he said he wanted to invite him as a guest musician. He likes to collaborate.



    __


    Originally Posted by Master Taffer

    At the end of the day, all I'm truly seeing here is a complaint that St. Pierre isn't Brosius. If that is either the overtone or undertone, then I give no respect to the argument.
    Seconded.
    The only part I am focusing on/disagreeing with is that video game composers HAVE to PLAY the game they are composing for. They don't.
    All I'm getting back is subjective likes/dislikes and unnecessary preaching to the choir.
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  24. #174
    [QUOTE=Viktoria;2005979]Sure. I never said otherwise.

    Then why bring up the YouTube statistics in the first place? Whether people like St. Pierre's soundtrack or not was never relevant to the conversation.

    I didn't say I know, I said 'I bet'... ie. I was speculating over the lack of spare time and preferred passion for composing music rather than playing games.
    But it matters not. Returning to my one and only point, a video game composer doesn't have to play the game they are composing for.

    I may have not had your words in the original order, but they say the same thing. My point stands. No game composer has to "at least" play the game.


    What? They mean completely different things. What I said was that he needed to play the original games. You made it say he needs to play the game he's composing music for (I.e. Thief 2014).


    There is no need to take my response so personally. The fact is, you are not a composer and have not studied music to his level. So my point stands, I expect he knows more than you.


    He knows more about composing music, I know more about playing games- especially the Thief games. Just because he has been a professional musician since he was young, that doesn't make his opinion on what music suits a Thief game any more valuable than mine. Because with music, you don't need to study it to appreciate its quality. You need to study it to be able to play and compose it, but being able to appreciate it is different.

    Same reason that film critics don't direct films, game critics don't make games, and food critics don't run Michelin starred restaurants.

    He didn't want his help in the sense that he wanted to emulate Brosius; he said he wanted to invite him as a guest musician. He likes to collaborate.


    He invited the composer of the original games to collaborate with him on the soundtrack of the new game, which is aiming for the same dark and tense atmosphere, which in many places DOES emulate the style of the original composer, and you don't think he wanted to write the same type of music?

  25. #175
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    Originally Posted by knox140
    Just because he has been a professional musician since he was young, that doesn't make his opinion on what music suits a Thief game any more valuable than mine.
    Actually, yeah it does. There's kind of a big difference between knowing how to compose music for situations to create appropriate mood and playing a game while going "Hey, this is pretty good."
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