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Thread: Official Thief Soundtrack / Music / Composer - Luc St.Pierre - NEW "Firequake" ?

Official Thief Soundtrack / Music / Composer - Luc St.Pierre - NEW "Firequake" ?

  1. #126
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    Come now taffers, music makes the people come together...mix the bourgeoisie and the rebel....
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  2. #127
    I'm not angry, just surprised by "boring game" argument. Thief was always slow-paced, with gameplay focused on stealth, not action. And TDS is exactly the same if we're talking about gameplay core. It was Reboothief which tried to change that by unnecessary escape sequences and poorly executed cinematic cutscenes, and it was a step back to me. But ok, nevermind
    My english isn't perfect, sorry...

  3. #128
    bro thief 3 has smaller maps without this empty feeling while thief dark project and metal age felt like it
    bro in eidos i trust

  4. #129
    Originally Posted by zwanzig_zwoelf
    bro thief 3 has smaller maps without this empty feeling while thief dark project and metal age felt like it
    Yup, and it is something that emphasizes player's loneliness as Garrett the thief, which is fine to me
    My english isn't perfect, sorry...

  5. #130
    bro i cant into this feeling of 'loneliness' when a bunch of guards is walking by and tries to kill me if thief had suv so i can ride around and say you cant catch me taffer i am a master thief you aint got skit on me then ok but here its boring
    bro in eidos i trust

  6. #131
    Originally Posted by zwanzig_zwoelf
    bro i cant into this feeling of 'loneliness' when a bunch of guards is walking by and tries to kill me if thief had suv so i can ride around and say you cant catch me taffer i am a master thief you aint got skit on me then ok but here its boring
    If you say so, my friend. First two titles were more about exploration than any later Thief game, so huge mansions and same open areas were never an issue for me.
    My english isn't perfect, sorry...

  7. #132
    Originally Posted by bartekb8
    If you say so, my friend. First two titles were more about exploration than any later Thief game, so huge mansions and same open areas were never an issue for me.
    I wouldn't take anything zwanzig says too seriously...bro.

  8. #133
    Originally Posted by zwanzig_zwoelf
    bro... here it feels warm and intimate like a drink with a best friend near the fireplace or hugging your dying brother and sometimes it goes wubwubwub like im having a nice time kissing and hugging with my sister while on first 3 games it was like wooo wooo wooo booooooorrrrriiiinnngggg
    You made my day again.

  9. #134
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    You made my day again.
    yes agree

    i look forward for the next !

  10. #135
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    If anyone missed them, there are some photographs added to Luc's blog, including his awesome audio Lab.


    Thief-related images include:

    Smecky Hall in Prague, recording Thief soundtrack
    Liu Fang playing the Pipa at RCA Victor studio for Thief
    Krystina Marcoux on percussions for Thief


    Check them all out here:
    http://www.lucstpierremusic.com/pics


    __


    Luc also takes part in an interview with Sam Hughes, aka "The Sound Architect", on 27 April 2014.
    http://www.thesoundarchitect.co.uk/i...s/lucstpierre/
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  11. #136
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    Another interview with Luc, discussing the music for Thief:

    Questions include:

    How did you approach scoring Thief from a textural and contextual point of view?

    Fans of the original PC Thief series are very protective of its heritage – were you aware of this going in and did you go back and look at the soundtracks for the first three games to get inspiration?

    Did you have a chance to talk to Eric Brosius at all during the process?

    Looking to the future, do you want to go down the road of focusing on video game scores, film scores, or a mixture of both and why?

    Can you recommend any useful books on composition/mastering/business etc. that you’ve read and enjoyed?
    Read all the questions and answers here:
    http://www.filmandgamecomposers.com/...-luc-st-pierre
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  12. #137
    That interview is painful, hehe

    As you may suspect, while working on the soundtrack I was well aware of the heritage of the Thief franchise although I was not myself a Thief fan (...) I did watch many walkthroughs on the internet to get the essence of what it was musically… but I could not ignore what was asked of me by Eidos Montreal and what I thought would be a good score for the new franchise.
    EM, what were you thinking? This is all wrong on so many levels, lol. As are the Brosius comments elsewhere in the interview

  13. #138
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    What are you thinking? You mean EM should of made sure the composer is a Thief "fan"? Is it not good enough that he knew of the franchise? He didn't have to play the game hehe.
    What is your issue with the Brosius comments?
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  14. #139
    I dunno, I agree with DF... I would have thought that learning why the Thief music is so great would take a lot more than just listening to it on a YouTube lets play. There were Brosius signatures that were very clearly missing (the noise at the beginning of levels, the chanting, the way he managed to incorporate rhythm into the ambiance like the slow horn noise in Bafford's basement- something that I don't think is common in ambient music- to name a few) that I would have thought would be essential in making a soundtrack for a Thief game.

    To spot these kinds of things, surely you'd need to actually experience playing the game at least? The point of the Thief music isn't to sound nice, it's to contribute to the Thief atmosphere that this game was missing. Sometimes the soundtrack of the originals was downright disturbing, but it complemented the games perfectly. St. Pierre's soundtrack wasn't bad... but it didn't capture Brosius's atmosphere at all. And the orchestral stuff was just out of place. If there is a sequel, I really hope they go back to the synth music.

    I can understand if he's not a fan- no doubt it would be difficult to find a composer who really knows the Thief games, except the obvious one, but he could have at least played them. Even just as research- watching a lets play is definitely not the same thing.

  15. #140
    The whole paragraph and much of the interview is disheartening on a number of levels. Carte blanche, indeed... I can't really blame the composer, though, he's just doing his job

    Will there be an interview with Paul Weir, too, I wonder, so we can see what role he played in the game's audio? And what he thinks of Thief and the old Brosius audio, as well as what direction/directive he was given?

  16. #141
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    Originally Posted by knox140
    ...would take a lot more than just listening to it on a YouTube lets play.
    What else would you have him do?
    He listened to the music via the most obvious platform (you tube). It guaranteed him instant results.


    To spot these kinds of things, surely you'd need to actually experience playing the game at least?
    So every professional who composes music for a video game must play the game first?
    A composer gets information from visuals and event descriptions and that is how they know what kind of music is needed.


    St. Pierre's soundtrack wasn't bad... but it didn't capture Brosius's atmosphere at all.
    Was Luc instructed to capture Brosius's atmosphere?
    But I do realise you're just thinking aloud here and stating personal preferences; that's fine.



    Originally Posted by DarknessFalls
    I can't really blame the composer, though, he's just doing his job.
    Exactly... which is why I couldn't understand your point. I still don't because you haven't answered my questions..
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  17. #142
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    St Pierre tried and was instructed on that, i get it from some "step" something like "Rising from Thief 1" i got it from the use of synthetizers , of course just a bit more modern

    Just a glimpse , what make Thief 1 musics Deep.. is the mix of reverbs used , a nice job and it is about 60% of the "immersivity" there...try to put off the sound in thief 1 when you're playing...and you will found out that you're in cubes world...wallpapered , musics and sounds , point of power of Thief 1!

    you can feel that corrupt athmosphere , the bad peoples...form some kind of "Reverb and Delay" i used this syhtn as VCS3. a nice snth

    St Pierre made a good job according with the modern times ! i liked some parts

  18. #143
    What else would you have him do?
    He listened to the music via the most obvious platform (you tube). It guaranteed him instant results.


    Play it, probably... And wouldn't the actual game be a more obvious platform?

    So every professional who composes music for a video game must play the game first?
    A composer gets information from visuals and event descriptions and that is how they know what kind of music is needed.


    Yeah, I would say so... Tell me- when do you feel more immersed, when you're playing Thief, or when you're just watching someone else play it on Youtube? I think that the only way you can capture the true Thief experience (and as a result, really understand the game Brosius' music was trying to compliment) is by playing it yourself.

    Was Luc instructed to capture Brosius's atmosphere?
    But I do realise you're just thinking aloud here and stating personal preferences; that's fine.


    Well, I'd say if he wasn't then EM don't really understand the franchise they're developing for... I would say that Brosius's music is one of the things, along with SR's voice work, in Thief that could probably be considered objectively good. Maybe they had a motivation for replacing SR, but I really don't see any good reason to do away with Brosius, or at the very least, Brosius' style of ambience.

  19. #144
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    Originally Posted by knox140
    [COLOR="Lime"]
    Play it, probably... And wouldn't the actual game be a more obvious platform?
    The game wasn't released when he composed the music. And do you think he had time to play games anyway?

    when do you feel more immersed, when you're playing Thief, or when you're just watching someone else play it on Youtube?
    See my points above.

    Well, I'd say if he wasn't then EM don't really understand the franchise they're developing for... I really don't see any good reason to do away with Brosius, or at the very least, Brosius' style of ambience.
    EM made their own game. Why must they employ Brosius as the composer or mimic Brosius's music in order to satisfy you that they understand the franchise?
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  20. #145
    No, I meant the originals. And yeah, sure he had time... he could have done it in the time when he was watching Youtube lets plays of it

    And as for the second point, as I said above, Brosius' music is one of the most praised things about the original games. Yes, they were making their own game, but that doesn't mean that they need to do away with the ambiant synth in place of orchestral soundtracks... I have not seen a single person who prefers the new soundtrack to the originals, and that's why they should have used Brosius or at least used his style. Because what they did instead just doesn't work as well, I think.

    The problem is, using the interchangeable audio cues they talk about in place of a single ambient loop just makes everything sound the same. I've played the game for a total of 43 hours now, with my last playthrough only a few days ago, and I can't recall a single piece of music from it, except the track that is also played in the Gamescom trailer (that one is quite memorable, but it isn't ambience so doesn't really count). From the originals, the tracks are all distinct, and I can easily recall many of them off the top of my head. I've played TDP for about the same length of time, in total (I tend to stick to T2 FMs), AND that was a few years ago. I can think of the pipe music from the Bonehoard easily. And all the chanting, the random noises like the drops echoing in sewers and the rhythmic drums, the people laughing and talking, the short sections of melody that come in for a few seconds and then fade out, are you really saying you don't miss that?

    For me, it was another element of uniqueness removed from the franchise, and another step towards the homogeneity that comes from publishers too afraid to take risks. If EM's aim is to make their own game, giving it a generic (yet decent) orchestral soundtrack that could effectively be from anywhere is a strange way to go about it.

    I dunno. I just think the audio is a lot more memorable in the originals. In this game, it is serviceable (except the alert music, which is unnecessary, annoying, and completely draws me out of the experience), but isn't nearly the selling point it was when Brosius wrote the score.

    Aahh... I think that's my weekly venting out of the way.

  21. #146
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    Eric Brosius made a nice work on TDS also...and the music switch from 8 bits to16

    here, in this video the ambient music is made by Brosius , and it is FM for Thief 2 (mine) it is Re-Construction for Thief 3 in Thief 2 ambient , yes i Rebuild it . not a conversion because nothing to convert , Thief 3 is made with Static Meshes...i rebuilt it with my skills "
    i've extract personally the music from Thief 3 i can say in Thief 3 he affinates his talent



  22. #147
    I agree, knox140. +1.

    I wish we could play our own music in Thief 2014. I would've queued up tracks from the classic games to play instead of the void of ambients, and the sporadic and short, non-Thiefy sound clips that repeat themselves over the course of the game

  23. #148
    I'm with Knox and DF on this one; saying that you only need to look up a couple of Let's Plays on YouTube to understand a game's soundtrack is like trying to understand a book by only reading the "look inside" section on Amazon.

    Video game soundtracks work differently than films or TV shows. While the latter two mainly use music based on specific events being shown on screen, games are much more nebulous and tend to focus on the ambience rather than the individual cues. For example, the Silent Hill series (that is, 1-4) makes effective use of ominous background noises that rely more on building a creepy atmosphere than jump scares. Even the louder and more active boss battle themes have a somewhat looping structure to them because there's no way for any developer to predict exactly what the player is doing and what they're looking at.

    On the flipside, the Dead Space series perfectly demonstrates what happens when you try and implement a movie-style soundtrack into a non-linear medium: every time a monster appears, the game produces an orchestra jump. This is OK at first, but since it often happens well after you've already seen a monster, it quickly becomes jarring and annoying. In fact, I found the game more tense once I shut off that obnoxious screeching soundtrack.

    Now to THIEF's credit, it does have a fairly heavy emphasis on ambient sound that isn't all that bad, in my opinion. Some of the tracks do have an appropriately 'Thief-y' vibe to them and create a nice atmosphere. However, while it's clear that Luc understands what Thief's soundtrack sounds like, he doesn't seem to grasp why it actually worked. As far as I'm concerned, Thief has one of the best soundtracks ever put in a video game. Not just because it's well-composed, but because it fits perfectly with the game going on around it (Thieves Den aside). Listen to the Cragscleft soundtrack and notice how seamlessly the ambient noises and music combine together to create that classic Thief-y atmosphere.


    In THIEF, on the other hand, we get classic Dead Space-style contextual orchestra jumps every time we turn a corner. The constant use of irritating music cues to indicate alertness states, plus that overblown combat music, just throws me out of the game every time I hear it. Sometimes the combat music continues even when it shouldn't be (like when standing on a ledge looking down at guards); I feel like I'm fighting mudcrabs in Oblivion again. I'm not an expert in music, so I won't comment on the specifics, but the overall soundtrack in THIEF just does not feel like Thief. Not that I wanted an exact copy of the originals...
    EM made their own game. Why must they employ Brosius as the composer or mimic Brosius's music in order to satisfy you that they understand the franchise?
    ...but since the overall sound design of the Thief series, from the music to the propagation system, is one of the reasons it's held up so well over the years then I don't think it's unreasonable to expect EM to emulate that to some extent. In my eyes, changing the soundtrack so drastically from the original Thief is like taking the fog out of Silent Hill: it might seem minor to some people, but to me it may as well define the whole experience.
    So every professional who composes music for a video game must play the game first?
    No offense Vikky, but I struggle to understand the logic behind this point. Of course he should play the originals to understand how the music worked: he needs to actually experience that soundtrack, not just listen to it.

  24. #149
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    Originally Posted by knox140
    No, I meant the originals. And yeah, sure he had time... he could have done it in the time when he was watching Youtube lets plays of it
    As you know, it takes a lot more time to PLAY two entire games (or even just one) than it does to look at Let's Plays... and it still requires a lot more time to compose music. As I said earlier, composers know what music is required from the visuals and plot descriptions. I am not saying it couldn't/wouldn't be of benefit... I'm saying it isn't imperative to play the game. Its all down to the composer's personal vision and creativity at the end of the day.

    And as for the second point, as I said above, Brosius' music is one of the most praised things about the original games.
    Sure... the original games.

    Yes, they were making their own game, but that doesn't mean that they need to do away with the ambiant synth in place of orchestral soundtracks...
    It doesn't mean they had to do away with the orchestral soundtrack in place of the ambient synth either.

    I have not seen a single person who prefers the new soundtrack to the originals,
    I'm sure Zwanzig said he preferred it.

    and that's why they should have used Brosius or at least used his style. Because what they did instead just doesn't work as well, I think.
    Its fine to think this... so long as you know its subjective. I prefer the original music too... same as I prefer the original games...but I still find the new game and the new music fit together. The new game is more grounded than the originals (not so magical/mystical) so there is a lot less call/opportunity for ambience of the nature we discuss.


    __


    Originally Posted by InDIGnation
    No offense Vikky, but I struggle to understand the logic behind this point. Of course he should play the originals to understand how the music worked: he needs to actually experience that soundtrack, not just listen to it.
    No offense taken.... why do some people even say that?
    The logic is.... you are talking about how the music worked in the original games. If the new game was like the originals, I would agree. But it isn't.
    Again, video game composers don't HAVE to play the game they are composing for in order to understand what they need to do. I can't think of any who have... but then I'm no modern-day "gamer" type.
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  25. #150
    As you know, it takes a lot more time to PLAY two entire games (or even just one) than it does to look at Let's Plays... and it still requires a lot more time to compose music. As I said earlier, composers know what music is required from the visuals and plot descriptions... there really is no need to play the game in question. The rest is down to the composers creativity.

    I have time to regularly play Thief as a full time medical student, I wouldn't have said that not playing the originals because he didn't have time is a particularly good excuse. Especially since it would be relevant to his job. And re: the visuals/plot descriptions, InDIGnation said it better than I did in the post you quoted.


    Sure... the original games.

    Missing the point. The main focus of that sentence was that it was one of the most praised aspects. This isn't just fixing what isn't broke, this is fixing what was one of the most fundamental parts of the experience to begin with...

    It doesn't mean they had to do away with the orchestral soundtrack in place of the ambient synth either.

    Again, missing the point... Sure, they could have done either. They chose the orchestra, and the soundtrack suffered for it. Or at least, it is the opinion of the majority that the soundtrack suffered for it... (I'm sure we could set up a poll to check), And that is why the first would have been a better idea.

    I'm sure Zwanzig said he preferred it.

    Hmm... pretty sure that's in favour of MY argument

    Its fine to think this... so long as you know its subjective. I prefer the original music too... same as I prefer the original games...but I still find the new game and the new music fit together. The new game is more grounded than the originals (not so magical/mystical) so there is a lot less call/opportunity for ambience of the nature we discuss.


    Plenty of Brosius' scores weren't mystical- Bafford's manor, for example. That is one of my favourites.

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