Thread: "THIEF" @ E3 - June 11/13 2013 - GAMEPLAY VIDEO Discussion/Thoughts/Suggestions

"THIEF" @ E3 - June 11/13 2013 - GAMEPLAY VIDEO Discussion/Thoughts/Suggestions

  1. #901

    Thief is peaking wrong in the demo

    The thief is peaking wrong in the demo when the hand and fingers grab corners. Please show as little as possible to guards or deserve to be caught for the foolishness. Grabbing a corner also puts the hands physically in the worst possible leverage to cancel the peak. Exposing the head and eyes is dangerous enough to also be adding our hands and fingers and increased failure. Did EM forget peaking is a dangerous action and lost themselves in congratulating every little technical possibility to make cool zombie hands? Don't be like the movies who make it so dramatic to see exagerated fingers and hands slowly appearing to pull the rest of the head and eyes into view. Don't make up a reason why the hero never dies from that mistake.

    Instead of fixing the peak, IMHO I would prefer you bring back free-leaning anytime anywhere as in all thief games and stop making zombie hands define a game. But that's another story for later ...

    To peak properly:

    • Lean the hands or finger tips against the wall and slide your head slowly around the corner. Snap back quickly if a guard is looking with the hands as leverage pushing against the wall. The best leverage is when hands are lower at chest high and not neck high in the demo. The best leverage is when all fingers can push against the wall.

    • Or, use the wall hug to lean back with a shoulder against the wall and roll the head slowly around the corner. Snap back quickly if a guard is looking with the shoulder as leverage pushing against the wall. The animation of the wall hug would at least be a lot more believable than the demo. Note that it is not desirable to require a wall hug to peak, so this method is just for reference and not to be implemented please.

    The demo problems:

    • Hands and fingers are still physically in view of a guard when we stop peaking because the hands have to keep holding on the corner as leverage to push the upper body back first. Once the head is back, it might be too late now to get the rest of your hands back. It is even worse when only half of the hand can be used for leverage because the fingers in the demo can never push on anything and might even just straighten out into the air exposing themselves further. A thief would not risk that extra maneuver.

    • Why grab something that you can not see? If there was something loose on the outer edge of a corner, the fingers just might dislodge it and make unnecessary noise or dust.

    • Pulling yourself into a corner slowly versus pushing away from the corner fast? We are not doing pull-ups sideways and not hanging on to keep from falling. The emphasis should instead be on a position to push away from the corner as fast as possible.

    • Upgrading to full black gloves to cover fingers will not solve the problem. There is still a silhouette of finger movement or the noise of the glove fabric scrapping along the edge to give us away.

    • Leaning is not a toggle and is already obvious when leaning with the controls. No hud is needed to remember leaning. Only crouching needed at least something in the hud to help when toggled.

    Thanks for helping

  2. #902
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    We have completely ruined your game.

    Please don't complain about it...

  3. #903
    I just noticed in the E3 demo that Garrett is crouched on a ledge with T-rex hands and then when he (R1) takedowns the guard, the game auto-stands Garrett up into a walk pose after completing the takedown. I would like to kindly request that the game instead remember what our stance was before yanking control from us so it can put us back into that same stance when we get control back. If I'm crouched before control is taken away from me, have me in a crouch when I get control back.

    Also, the (R1) takedown 3P camera switch cinematic is quite loud; not stealthy at all. I'm pretty sure I said before, but I feel the need to bring it up again Can it please be made quiet and stealthy, and pleeeease without the contextual *whoosh* cinematic post-production sounds? Garrett isn't performing quiet, stealthy and reserved actions I want/expect him to. There's a dog in a cage fifteen feet away in this example, and there's no way it wouldn't have heard Garrett crashing down and beating up the guard, with the sounds of the guard's helmet hitting the ground a couple times.

    And why does the guard keep talking after he just got taken out? Voice actor sounds same(?) before and after, starting at 4:14... http://youtu.be/vD6PcbK9Mko?t=4m14s

    PS: I really get tired of hearing all the cinematic *whooshes* (you hear it with takedowns, focus, new/updated objectives, certain pickpocketing (I think), swooping, inventory wheel appearing/disappearing, arming an arrow, etc.). Maybe I'm in the minority on this one, but I really would appreciate a more raw experience where I just hear the environmental sounds and not the contextual cinematic stuff. Brosius/Weir ambient music sounds are fine; it's the contextual post-production overlay stuff I don't like.

  4. #904
    Can we just...skip takedowns altogether?

  5. #905
    I wish...

    My fear is that they are in for good, given EM's desires to be unwavering. So if they are in, I'd like more Garrett and less Hollywood movie.

  6. #906
    Originally Posted by DarknessFalls
    Also, the (R1) takedown 3P camera switch cinematic is quite loud; not stealthy at all. I'm pretty sure I said before, but I feel the need to bring it up again
    Maybe that's purposeful? Blackjacks from behind are silent, takedowns can be done from heights but are loud and attract guards. I think that would be kinda neat, you have a kind of risk vs. reward thing going on. I'm still not sure what the actual difference between takedowns and blackjacks from behind is at the moment, I don't think it's been commented on by EM, but here's just a theory: Blackjacks are silent, but take longer to execute, takedowns are louder but instant, a bit like the Arkham series. I think that would be a cool idea.

  7. #907
    so after 37 pages of talk about the gameplay video, my question is, when will we get to see some more gameplay other than what we have already seen ?
    There is no Garrett, only Zuul!

  8. #908
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    /v/ just gave me this. http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php...n-of-a-product Apparently Ubisoft basically made an ultra-high definition version of Far Cry 3 for the stage demo only, which they probably played through a PC using a console controller, and then they released a seriously watered-down version of the game on consoles as well as on PC.

    This has a clear message. Don't you ever make the mistake of believing your own eyes when watching any sort of promotional videos made by the game companies themselves. The only things you can trust are objective third party demonstrations, that are made to highlight shortcomings instead of obscuring them, and playable demos. You can trust the demo because it would be too expensive for the company to produce a demo that is much better than the game, and they would probably get in trouble for such false advertising.

    I would therefore advise against pre-ordering anything but that violates the TOU [1]. So I'll just keep pretending that it's a good thing to support that business model.

    [1][source]

  9. #909
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    Originally Posted by Platinumoxicity
    This has a clear message...
    Not really. I've always believed it to be both illogical and unfair to tar everyone with the same brush.

    I would therefore advise against pre-ordering...
    Colour me lazy, but I can't say I've ever relied on playing a demo before placing a pre-order for a game. Lazy, lazy me.
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  10. #910
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    Originally Posted by Viktoria
    Colour me lazy, but I can't say I've ever relied on playing a demo before placing a pre-order for a game. Lazy, lazy me.
    I won't color you anything, because pre-orders didn't become mainstream until pre-release demos were phased out. Because pre-order bonuses didn't even exist yet. And the reason why they didn't exist is that developers were not trying to pass bad games as good ones, so they didn't have to lure gullible consumers into gambling with their money with perks that are actually just parts of the product sold separately so to speak.

  11. #911
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    I must be one of those gullible consumers.
    I gamble with my money every time I buy something new.

    PS. I've never relied on a demo before buying a game either.
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  12. #912
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    Well, at least if you don't pre-order games that only provide very carefully crafted promotional material as opposed to actual demonstrations of the game with zero bias, you are not being part of the problem and making gaming worse for all of us.

  13. #913
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    Fortunately, all the games I have preordered have been fun to play and worth the money.
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  14. #914
    But...why do you pre-order games, Viktoria? Is there a reason you don't wait until it's released?

  15. #915
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    If it's a series I'm really into I like to pre-order. Quite often get it through the post before the official release date, plus artbooks and things can be fun.

  16. #916
    I think TotalBiscuit has a good video on pre-orders. Personally, I stopped pre-ordering games because of Diablo 3.

  17. #917
    Originally Posted by Putkikameli
    I think TotalBiscuit has a good video on pre-orders. Personally, I stopped pre-ordering games because of Diablo 3.
    This video makes some very good points.

    Personally, I would only pre-order a game if the review embargo has lifted (and I've read the reviews obviously ) or if the game is part of an iterative series e.g. MS Flight Simulator.

    Pre-ordering blindly encourages bad business practices such as pre-order bonuses.

    After a few past disappointments, I'll be very careful in the future with what I pre-order.

  18. #918
    But...I still don't see why? Because of extra goodies? In-game items? Free t-shirts? It's not as if you won't be able to get the game after release day.

  19. #919
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    Originally Posted by argan1985
    But...why do you pre-order games, Viktoria? Is there a reason you don't wait until it's released?

    But... why not? No difference if you intend to buy anyway. You still have to wait until release date before your order can be processed and you can cancel at any time prior to dispatch, so there is no obligation.

    I don't pre-order all games. What draws me personally is exclusive and tasty collectors' items.



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  20. #920
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    That's the only, only, only benefit of preordering....getting some exclusive item. I can get a game just as fast as a preorderer can, if I choose.

    My reasons for preordering are not centered around me, they are centered around the company. It may not be logical, but I choose not to be "taken in" by preordering. After all, the single solitary only reason preordering even exists is a ploy/bribe to get the customer to buy NEW, and therefore put money into the pocket of the publisher/developer. Now, that, in and of itself, is not a bad thing. Nothing wrong with wanting to get paid for your hard work. I just have issues with ploys and bribes, that's all.

  21. #921
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    Actually, don't forget some pre-orders include a generous discount on the RRP. This is good if you intend to buy the game anyway.
    Also, if you intend to buy anyway... then a pre-order is neither a bribe nor a ploy. You enter into these things because you want to... and with your eyes wide open.
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  22. #922
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    I guess it takes getting burned in order to not pre-order. Since Viktoria has been lucky in that regard so far, she sees no reason not to.

    After a huge disappointment I haven't pre-ordered since, but I seldom did it anyway because I like to wait for a price reduction. I'm a hard person to please and most games don't seem worth what I paid for them.

    I have flirted with the idea of making an exception for Thief because... it's Thief. But then I remember that it probably isn't going to be.

  23. #923
    Originally Posted by Putkikameli
    I think TotalBiscuit has a good video on pre-orders. Personally, I stopped pre-ordering games because of Diablo 3.
    'Zero Originality', the original 'exposé' series on GameStop, made perhaps the strongest argument against pre-ordering games. Particularly from retailers.

    To summarize: Retailers don't adjust orders based on pre-orders. Whether they get 100 or 200 pre-orders of a given title, they're going to order as high or as low as they feel they can comfortably sell. So, really, you're paying for a promise... that the retailer is not compelled to (and in many cases does not) honor.

    I used to work at a major gaming retailer, and I can confirm that as a fact. Countless times, someone who pre-ordered a title would walk away empty-handed because the company has a set number to order, and doesn't even factor pre-orders into that figure.

    You're really paying the retailer for doing nothing. Months in advance. And they're spending that money, before they've given you anything. It is fairly absurd.
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  24. #924
    Is that what happened with D3 in a lot of places? I just don't see any reason to pre-order on the premise that the game will be good instead of waiting for reviews and opinions.

  25. #925
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    Originally Posted by auricgoldfinger
    I guess it takes getting burned in order to not pre-order. Since Viktoria has been lucky in that regard so far, she sees no reason not to.

    After a huge disappointment I haven't pre-ordered since...
    I am only 'lucky' in the sense that I am fussy and selective, so its hard for me to go wrong really. Its not like I buy a LOT of games. I wouldn't describe myself as a full-on gamer.

    Disappointment can happen even if you just buy a game outright. I was disappointed with Thief DS and I didn't pre-order that.
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