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Thread: New Nosgoth Game in Development: Confirmed

  1. #1351
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Milky View Post
    @Linikrayto : Hahahaha! You know, that's the most positive thing about Nosgoth. Driber made my week, no doubt about that
    Right I give up. Some people are just never satisfied

  2. #1352
    I did send my application as well. As soon as I got the chance, in fact.

  3. #1353
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Milky View Post
    @Ber : You don't have a blog? I've read you were there as well.

    Also, remind me, and be extremely concise : I should care for Square Enix revenue because of? Like this they won't even have those 10k that you speak of. How's that for a thought?


    Without my content for the LoK, and without me being subjective regarding Nosgoth - it is mediocre at best, even for the current standards. It does start with a small revenue. It does start with small doors. There was never any big announcement or similar, so if the goal was to gather more people that's a terrible marketing and a terrible way to present a game.
    Everything else stands and I agree Ber, but I can't get off the feeling that this will just alienate old fans even further.

    Boom, profit.
    Hi Milky, yes I was there but unfortunately I don't have a blog and I have been really busy with a couple of personal projects lately...

    Well, sadly we do have to take SE's revenue into account because that is what funds their games, and I do not think they (at least the big heads) see a massive potential in the LoK series, yeah they do recognise it may have some possibilities and that's why they decided to test the waters with Nosgoth, a relatively self founded, active development game. Yeah that means that their budget is not huge and they probably have the excecutives and marketing people behind their backs with deadlines.

    Those same people that made that sort of decision pretty much ruled out an HD remake, because it would cost too much and again not many people would buy it or even a lower budget single player story driven entry for the same reasons.

    Look, I know what you mean with all the points you made and believe me I would have preferred to have a proper continuation to the series or at least an HD remake but instead we got a multiplayer game... and I was reluctant at the start.

    However I decided to keep an open mind about it and when I was contacted to attend the event I went there feeling a bit nervous about the whole thing and not knowing what to expect (fearing the worst in any case)... but to my surprise I came out pleasantly surprised. Yes, Nosgoth is in very early stages of "active development" and I had my observations about it - mainly about character design, and I will be creating a separate thread regarding this soon.

    Other than that the game's setting is fair enough, they are trying to keep their hands off the established canon (until time or until someone that can handle it comes around, I guess) and experiment with basically what happened after Raziel's excecution, pretty much a blank canvas were to draw a game like this.

    Thing is... I'd advice you to give it a chance, see how you feel when playing it and then make your conclusions - you will not lose anything as its FTP and perhaps you might even have fun.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paradoks View Post

    First, you are making an incorrect assumption that only hardcore fans would buy a story based LoK sequel. Soul Reaver 1 alone sold more than 1.5 million copies by 2001. It has been stated with good arguments numerous times that a story driven game that does not require great knowledge of previous games is possible - I'm not going to repeat that yet again.
    When it comes to sales expectations I always remember that tweet from CAPCOM about why Mega Man Legends 3 wasn't made - it said: "It's a shame the fans didn't want to get more involved :-( if we saw there was an audience for MML3 people might change minds." Yeah, Mighty No. 9 proved how much "insight" some publishers can have.

    Nosgoth is even less likely to make a profit, or even return the cost of production (assuming it really isn't "pay to win"). The chances of attracting more audience to LoK doesn't sound probable either, because, well, the game doesn't look anythying like LoK.
    Well, you are right - but sadly times have changed... the gaming industry doesn;t work like it did in 1999... that's 14 years ago, now most of nowadays gamers prefer multiplayer titles and unfortunately almost none pay attention to story and focus on gameplay and graphics plus that kind of gamers make a huge percentage of the market share.

    As long as SE's believes those gamers will not be interested in purchasing LoK in any form we will not get a single player story driven game.

    That being said, I think Pillar of Balance pretty much covered me in what it comes to FTP and multiplayer competitive games and how they are planning to make a revenue from Nosgoth. But as a LoK fan the potential I see is somewhere else; Imagine getting those people interested in MP games and (with the help of the community and long term LoK fans) feed them with information about the series; unlockable loading screens - areas in the game that could be filled with that SR mystery feeling that made us lot want to know more back then... new characters with a origin synopsis behind (they can potentially think "hey my chara is cool therefore I'd like to know a bit more), gain them on our side and get them interested in previous games whilst they have fun... there is the potential - once we get more and more people interested in LoK then and only then SE's excecutives will start thinking about a proper sequel to the saga.



    Quote Originally Posted by Pillar of Balance View Post
    Ok, now i am able to sit and write a more detailed post on my thoughts over Nosgoth's art direction....

    No, I dont believe that for a second. Kain knew his future, he knew the future of Nosgoth, of his Empire, of his Clans... He knew They would devolve and Nosgoth would fall to ruin. Raziel's wings were the first sign of this future unfolding, Kain knew that Raziel's execution would lead to the events that occured, to Raziel's new existance, the cleansing of the Clans. Kain destroyed Raziel because Raziel's evolution was the harbinger of the End Times of his Empire. And with this event, Kain would have known that the petty politics of Man and Vampire were meaningless in the bleak future to follow, that is why he went into solitude. He knew his existence was instrumental to Healing Nosgoth's past, He would not have risked his life in such petty wars while the large Machiavellian paths of the future were ahead of him.

    Extend your perception beyond the base story for a moment. The Clans will have witnessed the Razielim's devolution and worried for their own futures, this worry, this fear... and Kain's silence and absence will have made the Clans descend into chaos and civil war. In fighting and scheming to claim the greatest power... Which we know, the Turelim basically would have done, being the second strongest of the Clans, however as the Turelim devolved second, while the Dumahim retained some humanity about them, the Dumahim would have overthrown the Turelim, which is why they are, in Soul Reaver 1 A. the most widespread and B. Dumah is the one residing in the Sanctuary, the seat of the empire...

    By the Dumahim's devolution the gap between each clan will have been shorter and more blurred, meaning no following clan held such advantage to overthrow Dumah.

    With the Clans infighting, the Human race, having spent the last millenia or so being oppressed and reduced to basically cattle and slaves, Will have united and seen the opportunity to try to defeat the Vampire clans. This is where NOSGOTH fits in. The war will have continued, with the Vampires devolutions granting both strengths and weaknesses as they became more feral. We know the humans tried to turn the Cathedral into a doomsday weapon, until Zephon and his kin stopped them, We also know, and sometimes forget, that they managed to storm the Sanctuary of the Clans, where they stuck Dumah like a pig and left him to rot.... NOSGOTH, makes PERFECT sense in its choice of timeline, and in what they are doing with it so far.
    This, this so much...

    But I only have a small observation

    Dumah was never impaled in the Sanctuary of the Clans, he met his doom at his very own palace in the (Ruined) Dumahim City, located to the north, quite close to where the Oracle's Cave was.... and yes there is potential in exploring how the Dumahim fell to mankind.
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  4. #1354
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    So there is a possibility if needs be. Well, ok.

    What's this about death threats? What's the name of the users?

    Edit : Sorry Ber, I didn't notice. Thanks for the kind reply.

    and I do not think they (at least the big heads) see a massive potential in the LoK series, yeah they do recognise it may have some possibilities and that's why they decided to test the waters with Nosgoth, a relatively self founded, active development game. Yeah that means that their budget is not huge and they probably have the excecutives and marketing people behind their backs with deadlines.
    Let's make an open letter, a petition. Surely such a thing wasn't something that they could miss given the fandome. Again, it's beyond silly to even think that they couldn't see any potential.

    Oh, and I don't mind the multiplayer game. I mind that CM stated "Lot's and lots of weapons" and many things more which are not either lore-friendly nor appropriate. I feel double-betrayed. I mind that people try to convince that this was the ideal model for the current time and when fans say "boo" others are like "omg, look at them". I mind when people try to overhype Nosgoth as if it really is another LoK game. It's not. It can't be. It won't be. I dislike to be lied "in the eyes" only to have to prove things to get a confession from the staff of how things are.
    I don't think that any fan deserves that nor I believe that flashing the blogs of something which was kept a secret is going to change anything in the fandome.
    I'm sick of all the hatred and spitting in the eyes of the old fans. I'm sick of reading it in the past days! I'm sick of being part of it, too!
    So all I have to say is this : CM should state to others that this is NOT a nail to the coffin to the LoK. Don't say this is LORE-friendly without having the lore to begin with. Don't use the fan blogs. IN FACT, say that this is a small project with 30 people who want to benefit everyone and by all means, right now, the best card you can pull is having Simon Templeman doing either a Skype interview or call him to work on a SP game. LET HIM say the words to the fans!
    With that I assure you with all my heart you'll give HOPE to the fans who are deeply dissatisfied with the current events. Like that you're going to give people who want to support Nosgoth, and I'm among them, a REASON to stay and follow.

    http://www.tubechop.com/watch/1509868

  5. #1355
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Milky View Post
    So there is a possibility if needs be. Well, ok.

    What's this about death threats? What's the name of the users?
    I'm not sharing that, jeez!

  6. #1356
    Unfortunately I really have more important things to do now than arguing on the forums so I'll keep it short now, and hopefully explain in detail later.
    I can live with general idea for the game. I don't like it and I think it goes against what the series has been built on, but as a spin-off it can have it's place.
    The biggest as and as of now unredeemable problem for me is the art style.
    If someone had shown me images of this game without it's name I would have never associated them with LoK. Simply - Nosgoth doesn't look like Nosgoth at all. "But it's a previously uncovered period so it can look different". Yes and no. The differences are obviously possible (and expected), but the general tone and architectural influences have been always present in the series (you can see medieval type of buildings not just in the Sarafan era but in the grim wasteland of Soul Reaver millennia later as well).
    I feel that Nosgoth is going too far away from the source, and when the world in BO1 at the dawn of it's doom looks darker and more depressing than what we see centuries after Kain's victory - I think some fundamental changes would have to take place.

    I also find it surprising that people who criticised Dead Sun for it's art direction seem to have no problem with Nosgoth, since it's essentially the same thing.

  7. #1357
    Quote Originally Posted by Paradoks View Post
    I also find it surprising that people who criticised Dead Sun for it's art direction seem to have no problem with Nosgoth, since it's essentially the same thing.
    I disagree. From what I've seen so far Nosgoth looks far grittier than Dead Sun ever did. The vampires colour wise are very similar to the vampire wretches found in Soul Reaver. Of course the new models are going to look more detailed and different, seeing how it is made on a new engine.





    Also I can see the Turelim of Nosgoth, even though they are missing the large ears, mutating into that one from Soul Reaver:




  8. #1358
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Milky View Post
    So there is a possibility if needs be. Well, ok.

    What's this about death threats? What's the name of the users?

    Edit : Sorry Ber, I didn't notice. Thanks for the kind reply.



    Let's make an open letter, a petition. Surely such a thing wasn't something that they could miss given the fandome. Again, it's beyond silly to even think that they couldn't see any potential.

    No problem at all

    Yeah that has been done before... it didn't get many signs - even if it does that will not guarantee they will make the game we want.

    They do see some potential, but I think they are reluctant to confirm if this potential will actually get them enough sales to make the game we want... That is why its up to us to take up to Nosgoth and help them build something impressive, then after our cards have been played we can have a chat regarding our dear sequel...

    Quote Originally Posted by Paradoks View Post
    Unfortunately I really have more important things to do now than arguing on the forums so I'll keep it short now, and hopefully explain in detail later.
    I can live with general idea for the game. I don't like it and I think it goes against what the series has been built on, but as a spin-off it can have it's place.
    The biggest as and as of now unredeemable problem for me is the art style.
    If someone had shown me images of this game without it's name I would have never associated them with LoK. Simply - Nosgoth doesn't look like Nosgoth at all. "But it's a previously uncovered period so it can look different". Yes and no. The differences are obviously possible (and expected), but the general tone and architectural influences have been always present in the series (you can see medieval type of buildings not just in the Sarafan era but in the grim wasteland of Soul Reaver millennia later as well).
    I feel that Nosgoth is going too far away from the source, and when the world in BO1 at the dawn of it's doom looks darker and more depressing than what we see centuries after Kain's victory - I think some fundamental changes would have to take place.

    I also find it surprising that people who criticised Dead Sun for it's art direction seem to have no problem with Nosgoth, since it's essentially the same thing.
    I know Paradoks, I know that very well, but I am not trying to argue with you.

    Yes, if I had any feedback to give about Nosgoth was the art style and yes some of it looks far too different from what we have seen in the series, but more is being continuously developed behind the curtain.

    Vampires had Arabic architecture and that is very well respected in Nosgoth, give a look to the bottom left of this wallpaper:


    (click image to enlarge)

    It might only be me, but that structure is very similar to the Sanctuary of the Clans.

    We didn't see this location at the event (we played in Freeport, a rustic and poor human settlement by the time Nosgoth takes place - and Valeholm, the unused BO2 city), yes they are relatively new locations and do not have a lot of back story to them, these are the same locations shown in the reveal trailer... but by the looks of it, Nosgoth can potentially add new locations in the future based on the players feedback. We need to interact with the devs to get this done right... most of the screenshots and video shown are very early alpha stages of the game, more can be added or cut from it depending on OUR feedback.
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  9. #1359
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    @CM Why not? We need to see who are the people threatening. It's idiotic.

    @Paradoks : I do agree. People seem to have forgotten. Not that it matters, still generic (aside from the alchemist lady which looks the best imho)

  10. #1360
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    Death threats are upsetting and even though it's kinda to be expected because it's the internet and Twitter and Youtube are bad for trolls, that doesn't make it acceptable. I honestly hope more and more people start going to the police to bring charges against those kinds of trolls. It's a problem that needs to be dealt with.
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  11. #1361
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    ^ True, it's best to make an example out of them regardless of being trolls. Having someone representing himself/herself as a LoK fan and calling upon death threats isn't my idea of a fandome.

  12. #1362
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Milky View Post
    ^ True, it's best to make an example out of them regardless of being trolls. Having someone representing himself/herself as a LoK fan and calling upon death threats isn't my idea of a fandome.
    You haven't seen any Sonic fans, have you?

  13. #1363
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    Going back to aesthetics. I'm personally fine with the vampires overall. The Razielim aren't necessarily what I'd have chosen myself in terms of their design. However I don't hate the design and I can understand their thinking on their choice. Plus I'd be hesitant in calling for a total redesign because there's really no guarantee that it would please those not happy with the design and worse it could just annoy more people.

    Though I'd maybe suggest one possible minor alteration to the Razielim. Maybe it would be better to have their wings modeled after Raziel's wings. To me they seem to resemble some of the Hylden in Defiance more than they do Raziel's wings from SR1. Even Turel who had devolved significantly more in Defiance still had a clear relation to the design of the Turelim of SR1. I think the Razielim could maybe benefit from more bat-like wings that unfold like Raziel's and not seem to pop out of their shoulders like the Hylden in Defiance (imo).

    Other than that I'd say stick with your own direction regarding aesthetics. You could maybe offer more varied custom cosmetic options which allow for a more beautified/pre-devolved look as well if possible.
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  14. #1364
    Another short post (long one including answers to previous posts incoming either in a few hours or tomorrow).
    First - this mistake has been made twice today so I'd just like to politely point out: it's Paradoks not Paradox . It's not unconventional spelling - it's Polish spelling.

    Now one more thing about the art style - look at the colour scheme. The whole thing is painfully bright. What's with the green grass and trees (not all of them but still)? What's with the bright blue sunny sky? This world is supposed to be dying. Compare it to glimpses of Nosgoth we see in SR1 intro or the future part of SR2.

  15. #1365
    Quote Originally Posted by Paradoks View Post
    Another short post (long one including answers to previous posts incoming either in a few hours or tomorrow).
    First - this mistake has been made twice today so I'd just like to politely point out: it's Paradoks not Paradox . It's not unconventional spelling - it's Polish spelling.

    Now one more thing about the art style - look at the colour scheme. The whole thing is painfully bright. What's with the green grass and trees (not all of them but still)? What's with the bright blue sunny sky? This world is supposed to be dying. Compare it to glimpses of Nosgoth we see in SR1 intro or the future part of SR2.
    There is no bright blue sunny sky in the game, not even a little bit - the sun has been blotted out by the smokestacks. If that's in the trailer, it's just an artifact.

  16. #1366
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    I see a solar eclipse at 0:09. Clearly something taken from the Dead Sun. And you said that those two are different games. : / Disappointed.
    And there is a "little bit" of blue sky in the trailer, at the very beginning. :]
    Also what's with the sky at 1:25? At 2:34 there's a symbol for Dead Sun. A symbol never before seen in LoK as far as I know.

    Yes, there's a lot of grass there. And those red thingies. And buildings are there too with Mexican themed colors. Essentially everything from Dead Sun that we've seen. So why saying how those two are not the same? They're just programmed to work differently in another genre, but are essentially using the same moves from Dead Sun, aren't they?
    And, please, honest answers. I want to trust you, not having to find flaws.

  17. #1367
    Quote Originally Posted by Paradoks View Post
    Another short post (long one including answers to previous posts incoming either in a few hours or tomorrow).
    First - this mistake has been made twice today so I'd just like to politely point out: it's Paradoks not Paradox . It's not unconventional spelling - it's Polish spelling.

    Now one more thing about the art style - look at the colour scheme. The whole thing is painfully bright. What's with the green grass and trees (not all of them but still)? What's with the bright blue sunny sky? This world is supposed to be dying. Compare it to glimpses of Nosgoth we see in SR1 intro or the future part of SR2.
    My apologies wont happen again. I'll edit my posts to change this ASAP.

    About the colour scheme, believe me, the game looks much darker when you are playing it, remember those screenshots and videos presented in the launch trailer are from the early alpha (including that eclipse Mr. Milky pointed out.)
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  18. #1368
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Milky View Post
    I see a solar eclipse at 0:09. Clearly something taken from the Dead Sun. And you said that those two are different games. : / Disappointed.
    Also what's with the sky at 1:25?

    Yes, there's a lot of grass there. And those red thingies. And buildings are there too. Essentially everything from Dead Sun that we've seen. So why saying how those two are not the same? They're just programmed to work differently in another genre, but are essentially using the same moves from Dead Sun, aren't they?
    And, please, honest answers.
    I answered that in June here.

    Development started on Nosgoth while Legacy of Kain: Dead Sun was already in development and the reasons that led to the cancellation of Legacy of Kain: Dead Sun had nothing to do with Nosgoth. Nosgoth was a separate game from the beginning and is very much a unique game in its own right. It shared art direction with the single player game, but was always set in an entirely different time period and features different mechanics, characters, levels and gameplay. It isn’t and never was just a multiplayer version of the single-player game, Nosgoth’s scope is much greater than that.

    EDIT: Also, when have I ever been dishonest with the LoK community?

  19. #1369
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    If you're referring to the screenshots of "Pre-Alpha" on the Website, Paradoks, then I think I understand why you think the art style is a little bright. I don't know why those shots are so bright, but I will tell you with 100 percent certainty, having played it, that the build they showed is not lit that way. It's a dark world, while not having grungy browns and such like a lot of Unreal games can be, so not like Gears of War, for instance. The trailer shows basically how the game is actually colored and lit now. Hopefully they'll update screenshots soon on the site.

    We did only play that one human city, but again look at the art in the trailer for places unseen yet. You'll see some notions of a dying LoK world in concept pieces of places not yet shown to us.

    Incidentally, thank everyone for their kind words regarding my art. I appreciate it I now want to show you that surprise I've started working on, but I can't yet. I've got to finish this other commission, which has taken all of my time since I've been back. Anyway, let's put some faith in the team that they'll be able to, hopefully, address some model changes. It might not happen soon, but they're trying to set up a model for this game where it's directly impacted by what fans want, so that's something to look forward to.

  20. #1370
    Quote Originally Posted by Monkeythumbz View Post
    There is no bright blue sunny sky in the game, not even a little bit - the sun has been blotted out by the smokestacks. If that's in the trailer, it's just an artifact.
    This is an artifact?:


  21. #1371
    Quote Originally Posted by Paradoks View Post
    This is an artifact?:

    It's definitely not in the builds I've been playing, no.

  22. #1372
    Quote Originally Posted by Monkeythumbz View Post
    It's definitely not in the builds I've been playing, no.
    Yet, it is in the announcement trailer. The very first thing you see actually.

  23. #1373
    Quote Originally Posted by Paradoks View Post
    Yet, it is in the announcement trailer. The very first thing you see actually.
    Yes, but it's not in-game. Not even a little bit.

  24. #1374
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    @CM I did found several flaws in things which you said earlier on. "Lots and lots of weapons" for an example. If it's something planned to be added later on, then ok. But say so.
    Aside from the trying to avoid the original reason for disabling the YT comments and ratings and things earlier discussed. I don't mind, but I prefer to trust you. If I can trust you, then I can help you.


    @The current topic regarding the artifact. It's not artifact, it's Goku!

  25. #1375
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Milky View Post
    @CM I did found several flaws in things which you said earlier on. "Lots and lots of weapons" for an example. If it's something planned to be added later on, then ok. But say so.
    There ARE lots and lots of weapons, right from the get-go. The people who came to the event din;t get to see the full extent of the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Milky View Post
    Aside from the trying to avoid the original reason for disabling the YT comments and ratings and things earlier discussed. I don't mind, but I prefer to trust you.
    Dude, I thought I'd be able to handle the YT comments, but I was overwhelmed due to having to manage so many different communication channels so I disabled them. I subsequently realized they should stay off as they'd be off-putting to people who were new to the game, so I turned off ratings too. End of.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Milky View Post
    If I can trust you, then I can help you.
    If you want to help, please would you stay away from the Facebook page for a while? That's not helping, you're just putting people off the game.

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