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Thread: New Nosgoth Game in Development: Confirmed

  1. #1301
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Milky View Post
    @CM : I didn't say that Stealthy and Agile are not compatible. I was confirming that Dumahim should be "stealth" ones. Though I must also agree that I see Zephonim as even stealthier and lore-wise : trap-makers.
    Web traps would be cool. Like web-mine of sorts where the human sets it off and is enveloped in a cocoon of web.

    Also if I could maybe make one suggestion for you guys working on Nosgoth. If we are to see Zephonim at some point. Could the Zephonim character be a redhead like Zephon is shown to be in his SR2 mural? I know it's small and obscure thing, but I think it would be a cool detail and fan service (well at least for this particular fan, lol).
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  2. #1302
    Quote Originally Posted by Count D View Post
    I believe it takes place when Raziel was still swimming in the Abyss. Melchiah, I believe, mentioned Kain not being much of a ruler in that millenium. There are even theories he wasn't even in Nosgoth during that time and just skipped it with the Chronoplast until Raziel rises.
    The only thing that Melchiach said was: "the master is beyond your reach, Raziel. He makes himself known when he sees fit - not when commanded."
    It's a stretch to say that he was absent. George however confirmed that Kain is not around in this game:
    When he re-emergfes, it's inm ruins and its clear Kain has been absent for quite some time (as evidenced by his lack of devolution following Nupratros cuerse as evinced by his Lieutenants.
    I'm sorry but the official answer to Kain's lack of devolution is:
    Why didn't Kain evolve any further once Raziel had grown his wings?

    The corruption inherited by the Lieutenants was what caused their faster evolution - and later their devolution. Kain is not necessarily influenced in the same way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bazielim View Post
    So far I've counted three actual reviews from people that have played it - none Square staff, all big LoK fans and all positive about it - perhaps that means something
    Well, I didn't play the game, but from what I've seen and heard I have no reason to. So if a big fan like me is not willing to play a game in a franchise that is free - perhaps that means something as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ber View Post
    Well... look, things how they truly are:

    The hardcore LoK fans around the world must be less than 10.000 with luck (which means most of them will be posting on different pages at the same time, giving the illusion of a larger number)... This amount of market is really too small in terms of sales, that is why - a history driven LoK game is not realistinc, not even trying to turn the plot around with a new character (confirmed with Dead Sun's cancellation), the sales people at SE will not go for it, there is not remotely any possibility of recovering any money from a AAA LoK title because barely any people will buy it (taking onto account that possibly a large percentage of the hardcore LoK fans live in countries were digital downloads or buying an original copy is not a real possibility, thus leading them to buy pirated games, affecting sales even more [remember? that was one of the most damaging factors that affected LoK: Defiance])...
    First, you are making an incorrect assumption that only hardcore fans would buy a story based LoK sequel. Soul Reaver 1 alone sold more than 1.5 million copies by 2001. It has been stated with good arguments numerous times that a story driven game that does not require great knowledge of previous games is possible - I'm not going to repeat that yet again.
    When it comes to sales expectations I always remember that tweet from CAPCOM about why Mega Man Legends 3 wasn't made - it said: "It's a shame the fans didn't want to get more involved :-( if we saw there was an audience for MML3 people might change minds." Yeah, Mighty No. 9 proved how much "insight" some publishers can have.
    Nosgoth was the safest way to go, and no people will not like it because is not what they are used to, but believe me to release a game that dips into the LoK mythology respecting everything that was stablished in previous games whilst at the same time offering a fun experience that will potentially get newcomers hooked with the LoK saga instead of releasing a game that wouldn't have sold well in the first place and would potentially displeased fans by not continuing Defiance straight away from were it left. Hopefully Nosgoth will get some people curious about the franchise and maybe, perhaps one day we will get a continuation to the saga. but not now.

    But at least we got something.
    Nosgoth is even less likely to make a profit, or even return the cost of production (assuming it really isn't "pay to win"). The chances of attracting more audience to LoK doesn't sound probable either, because, well, the game doesn't look anythying like LoK.

    Quote Originally Posted by Linikratyo View Post
    I see Zephonim as stealthier though, so still don't really see the reason why...
    I agree with this. For me out of all clans Zephonim always seemed to me like a natural choice for stealth.

  3. #1303
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paradoks View Post
    Nosgoth is even less likely to make a profit, or even return the cost of production (assuming it really isn't "pay to win").
    Ok. I'm not personally interested in the constant back and forth on the merits of Nosgoth as a LoK game or a game set in the same world. However I would like to see George, Driber or whoever come in on this one.

    Nosgoth isn't the only F2P game out there (or will be out there rather) and I doubt that every F2P game out there making a profit does so by being P2W. I honestly don't see them making this game and SE signing off on it if they all didn't have some expectation of making their money back on it and I don't see good reason to assume they'd poison the well and implement a P2W system.
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  4. #1304
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    Quote Originally Posted by Driber View Post
    Interesting thought, however this are the fans right now. What can you say except "Mamma mia!".





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    @Dormath : Yes. Web trap but in a timed manner. As in - slowing down, the usage of weapons restricted. A 45% chance to be stuck for 2.5 seconds. during that time Zephonim may come and attack.
    But no matter how I look at it all I see is AVP.

  5. #1305
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    @Mr. Milky. Nice idea. That would make the trap more nuanced.

    AVP can be a fair comparison, but it needn't be a bad one. Those games were pretty good from what I recall. I was a bit underwhelmed with the latest AVP, but that was more because it didn't evolve to the standards of today's shooters (imo), but the series and the concept (mp included) is a good solid concept. Games can be similar to one another without simply being clones.
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  6. #1306
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    lol... "the fans"

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Milky View Post
    Interesting thought, however this are the fans right now. What can you say except "Mamma mia!".

    I say.... free Strepsils and Asperin for everyone!

  7. #1307
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    Yeah, I can't get off the feeling that Zephonim would be crawlers in a similar fashion to that of an Alien species from the AVP.
    Of course that would have to come in some expansion pack for Nosgoth itself which will take time after 100 years of the initial release.

    100 years. The thinking about Nosgoth made me to be engulfed in cliche and reading trough the NeoGAF today, oh my... I thought I was grumpy. Clearly mistaken on that account.

    ----

    Aside from the official info and so on this is intended for the people who've played as well as people who've seen the trailer :

    Your thoughts on the Razielim? Artstyle. Method. Implemented before the implementation of the lore or after? What's the general idea that you get from it?

    ----

    @Driber : I already drank my


    It was a long day.

  8. #1308
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    ^ Time for you to go to bed then

    ---

    @Dormarth: That might be a good question (the one about profits) for the live Q&A on the 30th

  9. #1309
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Milky View Post
    Aside from the official info and so on this is intended for the people who've played as well as people who've seen the trailer :

    Your thoughts on the Razielim? Artstyle. Method. Implemented before the implementation of the lore or after? What's the general idea that you get from it?
    I was a little taken aback by the style choice for the Razielim personally, but I realise the lore is that they would have likely devolved first. So that seems to fit. It's not an awful look, it's just something I would have necessarily have picked myself (obviously I don't get to make those decisions. lol).

    I think it's fair to say from my thread asking whether the Razielim could have survived the vampire purge that I'm a bit precious about them. I felt similarly about Turel before Defiance and always wanted to see Raziel himself gain the ability to change into his pre-fallen form since his ravaged form was simply a manifestation of sorts. I think I just didn't want some characters I liked to devolve too monstrous.

    It's fine, it just takes a bit of getting used to, but overall I'm liking the aesthetics of the game, especially the scout's look. The mask reminds me somewhat of the cenobites from SR1.

    Quote Originally Posted by Driber View Post
    @Dormarth: That might be a good question (the one about profits) for the live Q&A on the 30th
    Sweet. I'll have to look up the details (I'm still trying to get through everything). I wasn't one of the lucky ones who got invited to play Nosgoth, but I'll definitely be keeping the Q&A in mind.
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  10. #1310
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dormarth View Post
    Sweet. I'll have to look up the details (I'm still trying to get through everything). I wasn't one of the lucky ones who got invited to play Nosgoth, but I'll definitely be keeping the Q&A in mind.
    http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=7175

  11. #1311
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Milky View Post
    Yeah, I can't get off the feeling that Zephonim would be crawlers in a similar fashion to that of an Alien species from the AVP.
    It would make perfect sense because they were modelled after Aliens in the first place.

  12. #1312
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    ^ Indeed. As far as I remember the lan parties of AvP weren't much successful. At my place most of the time people didn't know what they were doing. Dark places, traps, sudden deaths etc.

    I just do think that Zephonims would be a good match for the Nosgoth. They're as treacherous as Nosgoth, the game is. Metaphorically would be correct imho.

    @Dormath : Ty for feedback.

    Personally I'm greatly dissatisfied with the vampires. I don't get the "vampire" feeling from them which I had in the previous games. So my choice and/or preference would be humans. They just look better overall. I know I didn't play Nosgoth just yet, but I've played many similar things to know how it feels, but vampires are what initially started my interest in the series and without them being authentic to the core I can't get the satisfaction.
    I also can't get off the feeling that they're somehow misplaced. The Tyrant thingy, Sentinel thingy. Doesn't make any sense to me.

  13. #1313
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paradoks View Post
    The only thing that Melchiach said was: "the master is beyond your reach, Raziel. He makes himself known when he sees fit - not when commanded."
    It's a stretch to say that he was absent. George however confirmed that Kain is not around in this game:
    Paradoks, that's centuries later. There's still hundreds of years for Kain to be completely absent here and to be sporadically present then. I get you're in disagreement on the game, but they do fit the lore here. This absolutely is important to address, because if this is a criticism being passes along, it's not warranted.

    The game is taking place roughly 2 centuries after Raziel has been abyssed. The rest of the clans have been persecuting the Razielim following his execution. Kain left them alone to their devices and this quickly turned to their jealousies and conniving to outdo one another ruling them. The humans, meanwhile, used this as an opportunity to round their numbers and to fight back. This sudden thread unites these clans, even the remaining Razielim, against this common foe. We see Dumah's empire in ruin from the human uprisings centuries later. We also see the humans have been pressed back into the Human Citadel, which would make sense to follow their last stand, or stands. This uprising seems to indicate the beginning of the last hurrah for the humans.

    Anyway, there's plenty to criticize the game over, but the time period of this war and the reasoning behind why the clans are left to their lonesome and their infighting, where Kain is ... all of that is explained and not going against anything. Kain could have simply been gone for a few years at this point. It probably would not take much for these clans to start fighting themselves over pettiness. That's how they were depicted anyway. Kain returns in a hundred years, fifty, less... There's plenty of time for all of that and more before we reach SR1's ingame time.

    I imagine Kain is deep within the Chronoplast trying to make damn sure he's thought of every possible way to convince Raziel to help him alter history (and to not kill Kain) before he wakes from the Abyss.

  14. #1314
    Quote Originally Posted by The Hylden View Post
    [...]
    I'm talking about theories that "Kain skipped the millennium", which can be seen in the text that I've quoted. It's true that there may very well have been a time when Kain was absent, it however was not suggested in Melchiah's speech.
    The problem is the statement that Kain's lack of devolution was the evidence of his absence, because official answer suggest otherwise.

  15. #1315
    Hm.... I was taking a lil break from all this, waiting for the initial storm to die down a lil, then i get afriend request....

    Anyway. hi all.... Caught up now.... Nice to see everyone is still playing the parts fate has written for them. Anyway, yeah, 2:30 am.... So im off to sleep. I will jump in tomorrow with something more substantial. I will however say Lucin, Raina...... Oh how i envy you both

  16. #1316
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    All the official statements say is that Kain's evolution is not affected the same way by the corruption as what happens to his Lieutenants. They don't say anything about whether he skipped ahead, or not. I'd like to believe he didn't need to skip much, just be engrossed for centuries at a time within the Chronoplast. Time, basically having little meaning to him when he's enveloped in soaking the entire timestream into his brain.

  17. #1317
    Indeed, but because Kain was not affected in the same way means that his appearance in SR1 cannot be used as evidence of his absence. That's the only point I'm trying to make. I really have no problem with Kain not being present in his empire all the time.

    I know it's obvious that I really don't like what I see, but I'm really not bashing the game just for the sake of criticising (and in this case I'm not even criticising the game, just pointing out what I perceive as a mistake in George's argument).

  18. #1318
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paradoks View Post
    It's a stretch to say that he was absent.
    Nothing new under the sun
    "A return to Nosgoth is not necessarily always welcome: only the attainment of that final gnosis will satisfy us." – Sam Zucchi

  19. #1319
    Quote Originally Posted by Aevum View Post
    Good read, but tell me, how do I reach that conclusion from that Melchiah's speech that I was referring to?

    Anyway, it's 4.24 a.m. here. Goodnight everyone.

  20. #1320
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    I dunno, just showing you the idea has a perfectly sound basis. Similar place, different route. Still valid.
    "A return to Nosgoth is not necessarily always welcome: only the attainment of that final gnosis will satisfy us." – Sam Zucchi

  21. #1321
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    i honestly dunno what to feel about the game..i like the humans and the vampires...i dunno yet....i hope there is a lot of customization options on the horizon for this game.

    still keeping an open mind so far.
    "are you trying to bore me into submission?" ~ Raziel/Defiance
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  22. #1322
    Actually, I think, I might like playing this game. I might even enjoy it a good deal.
    The thing is, there was no need to bother LoK fans by strapping the universe to it.

    I'm pretty much fine with Dumahim and Turelim (except ears should be bigger 8)) design, but tentacle-winged Razielim - it's a miss, and a hard one. Especially since everyone still remembers the unique structure of Raziel's wings - they could hardly devolve that far from that in such a short time, bearing in mind everyone else are pretty much close to normal.

    Humies are fine, cause they are humies, there's not much known about them in that period.

    Why didn't they go with naval battles and Rahabim then? That would be something I'd enjoy to watch.



    But then I remind myself I decided not to count this game as a part of the franchise and what remains seems to be a decent competitive game.

  23. #1323
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    A positive suggestion : Remodel vampires, by all things holy.

    Ask Hylden! Better yet, HIRE Hylden.

  24. #1324
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Milky View Post
    Ask Hylden! Better yet, HIRE Hylden.
    They should hire The Hylden to direct LoK 6, not for Nosgoth

  25. #1325
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balance Reaver View Post
    They should hire The Hylden to direct LoK 6, not for Nosgoth
    I completely agree...lore wise and making the models

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