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Thread: "Garrett is now doing more action moves."

"Garrett is now doing more action moves."

  1. #1

    "Garrett is now doing more action moves."

    http://www.gameinformer.com/b/featur...rom-thief.aspx

    "We wanted to change him more for the modern audience; for today's console market."

    "He's now in the game doing more action moves, and we wanted his suit to reflect that."

    ...

    Now I don't really have much of a problem with Garrett's new look. I still think it screams "life is pain" too much, with the eyeliner. They go on in great detail about the visuals. But honestly, I am not interested in Garrett's face at this point. But the idea that Garrett's actions, his very NATURE will be changed... Well. I'll leave the 'changing for today's console market" up for debate, as to what that means, as well as the idea of taking inspiration from AAA blockbuster action movies(Sherlock Holmes, The Crow, The Dark Knight), as opposed to quality literature and classic film noire. (City of Lost Children, The Maltese Falcon, etc)

    But it was stated directly in the video that there would be a lot more ACTION... Never once in the video do they mention Garrett's ability to remain unseen. They don't talk about his techniques, they don't talk about his methods of thievery. They state that he's a master thief, they say that he's the best there is at what he does. (snikt) That he's at the top of his trade. But never once do they mention his stealth abilities. In fact... from what I've read in the gameinformer article... I don't think they even mentioned any aspect about sound or lack thereof. Neither did they give more than two sentences about the use of light and shadow, or Garrett's tools. No noise arrows, no flash bombs(which would have been better than snapping a guard's knee in half). For all we know, if this is a reboot, the Keepers could have been a league of magical assassins who have mastered the art of unarmed combat.

    They go on and on about Focus, but they only give the most cursory of information on dry ice arrows, his grappling hook, or flash bombs, or the like. Those were mentioned in point form, and apparently were not important enough to include in the gameplay described in the article. There is also no mention of guards entering "search mode" for Garrett. No. The instant the guards appear, they rush him, and Garrett has no option to escape. He has to engage them in direct, bloody combat that would make Leonidas proud.

    "The core philosophy of the Thief reboot is to “force players into impossible situations and give them the tools to escape.”

    Are we to assume that Garrett will, for the sake of plot, be careless, and walk right into traps? Is this a game about escape artistry, or thievery? Stealing is a proactive act, not reactive.

    From what I see here, they don't want to make a new THIEF game. They want to make Batman: Arkham Steampunk.

  2. #2
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    Seems like it's going to be Assassins Creed meets Prince of Persia from what I can see. A lot of focus on combat too which doesn't seem to fit the Thief lore. I also dislike that Gothic look he now has, it makes him a totally different character now. As an answer to their statement about the Aston Martin, dressing up a Ford Mondeo does not make it an Aston Martin in anyone's eyes.

    To be honest, I think if they had kept the Thief theme but changed the character from Garrett to another one, it would have suited the new look.
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  3. #3
    I agree with pretty much everything you said, but The Crow is not a AAA blockbuster action movie at all. I also resent the idea that The Dark Knight isn't quality literature. Also I think you might be overreacting a bit because the entire core idea of Thief is stealth, and that could be why they haven't talked about it much; because it's obvious.

    Also in Batman if enemies had guns you pretty much couldn't fight them.
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  4. #4
    Originally Posted by Shralla
    Also I think you might be overreacting a bit because the entire core idea of Thief is stealth, and that could be why they haven't talked about it much; because it's obvious.
    Or because there's not enough of it to talk about. If we are to take anything from the article, it's that guards are scarce, and instead of the suspense of hiding, and avoiding combat, we get the non-stop action thrill ride of running and kung fu.

    In short, WHERE IS THE SNEAKING?

  5. #5
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    Originally Posted by Shralla
    Also I think you might be overreacting a bit because the entire core idea of Thief is stealth, and that could be why they haven't talked about it much; because it's obvious.
    Agreed.

    Originally Posted by Chilliwack
    Or because there's not enough of it to talk about..

    In short, WHERE IS THE SNEAKING?
    They won't discuss the finer details ... at least not at this point in time.
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  6. #6
    My first thought was also that they didn't talk so much about stealth because they were talking about the differences to the previous games and things that they themselves introduced, not necessarily because stealth was a minor element.

    And another thing is that while Garrett isn't a ninja, he's also no wimp, so if he does a cool move every now and then I will want to see it. The game discourages you from killing people but Garrett WAS able to kill, he had bloody LANDMINES to do it. If I didn't kill people routinely with exploding mines or broadhead arrows, I'm not gonna start now.

  7. #7
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    Originally Posted by Shralla
    Also I think you might be overreacting a bit because the entire core idea of Thief is stealth, and that could be why they haven't talked about it much; because it's obvious.
    What Shralla said.
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  8. #8
    Originally Posted by Master Taffer
    What Shralla said.
    He (She?) also agreed with pretty much everything else that was said. For a game that supposedly emphasizes steath, there sure isn't much mention of it. That's like trying to pitch Borderlands to someone without talking about the guns. Which they DID talk about. "There are more guns than EVER!" It was a selling point. So when are we going to hear about the stealth?

  9. #9
    This is what being a Thief is

    You're a thief, not a murderer. Being the professional that you are, you can pull off this job without killing anyone. (Expert)

  10. #10
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    Originally Posted by Chilliwack
    He (She?) also agreed with pretty much everything else that was said. For a game that supposedly emphasizes steath, there sure isn't much mention of it. That's like trying to pitch Borderlands to someone without talking about the guns.
    I really, REALLY think you're completely overreacting here and jumping Moe Sizlack's five gun apparatus.

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  11. #11
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    Originally Posted by Chilliwack
    So when are we going to hear about the stealth?
    We don't know when exactly.. but we will.
    There is a lot more stuff in the pipeline for release.
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  12. #12
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    Originally Posted by Viktoria
    We don't know when exactly.. but we will.
    There is a lot more stuff in the pipeline for release.
    Indeed, it's been only eight days thus far. It's WAY too soon to be doomsaying in any capacity.
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  13. #13
    ^Very well said.
    But they seem to be focusing on the wrong things...Garrett's visual side were never clear, you know? Part of being an unseen master Thief...
    And what's with all this focus on action?
    (pun intended)

  14. #14
    "We wanted to change him more for the modern audience; for today's console market."

    I'm surprised developers are able to say this without a hint if irony these days. Like it's such obvious PR doublespeak, that it's literally just a more patronizing way of saying, "You know that stuff you loved about your game? The LCD won't like it, so off it goes"

  15. #15
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    The one good thing about the reveal-after-reveal disappointment of hearing how terribly misguided those that are "reinventing" this hallowed and seminal franchise are... is that when the "rebooting" make their plainly wrongheaded decisions known by saying what they've done*... the one good thing is there is always humor to be found!

    The apologists are a right riot!

    They come scrambling and dissembling with such predictable haste.

    You have to laugh at last.

    *For instance: with this "He's now in the game doing more action moves"; for another instance: they spent 3 years trying to make it Assassin's Creed 2, or 3 (but, alas, just couldn't keep up with how quickly that crap was being churned out... so maybe now Dishonored 2, quick! quick!); and more instances: Batarangs and whipping chains...

  16. #16
    Man I really hope this game doesn't end up feeling like Assassin's Creed . I really dislike that series.

    Anyways I'm not getting my hopes up, I've been burned too often in the past by reboots/sequels and generally the naysayers are right about this kind of thing.

    I don't expect it to be like the original games, but it might still be enjoyable as a different kind of experience.

  17. #17
    I agree with the OP but for a different reason, after the disasters that was D3, Aliens colonial marines, and mass effect 3 ending I have lost faith on the "Word" of the devs promising(or not) something while at the same time drawing ghost children while saying that they won't. In short PROVE that the stealth is there and that it is well thought out and not pushed aside for Garret the master Assassin 2.0

  18. #18
    Originally Posted by Lord Karn
    I agree with the OP but for a different reason, after the disasters that was D3, Aliens colonial marines, and mass effect 3 ending I have lost faith on the "Word" of the devs promising(or not) something while at the same time drawing ghost children while saying that they won't. In short PROVE that the stealth is there and that it is well thought out and not pushed aside for Garret the master Assassin 2.0
    Pretty much this. At this point, the gaming community is incredibly jaded. After the numerous letdowns of the last couple years, we are skeptical. Hopefully the next video on gameinformer will talk about the stealth.... if indeed, there is enough to talk about.

    If I want to play an action game with a little bit of stealth thrown in, I'll play Batman.

  19. #19
    Originally Posted by Lmaoboat
    "We wanted to change him more for the modern audience; for today's console market."

    I'm surprised developers are able to say this without a hint if irony these days. Like it's such obvious PR doublespeak, that it's literally just a more patronizing way of saying, "You know that stuff you loved about your game? The LCD won't like it, so off it goes"

    Amen, I don't think it's to late to doomsday prophesy. The initial wave of information released for a game contains what the developers consider CORE gameplay mechanics and elements. The further we get to the release date, the more the finer details and specifics will be put to light. This first bundle of info contains information regarding stealthy mechanics only in bulleted lists basically, and the rest of these interviews, articles and whatnot all talk about

    Assassins creed Inspiration
    Dishonored Inspirations
    Action orientated gameplay mechanics
    Batman inspirations
    Garrett being inspired (despite already being an original, fully developed character) by the likes of sociopathic killer clowns (aka the joker) and having an intentionally "gothy" character design "we had to remove the black nail polish"
    Focus (obviously there for potato head mainstream "gamers")

    As I watched information for Mass-effect 3 leak out I knew from the get-go that EA had ruined another franchise

    As I watched information leak out for Dragon Age 2, I knew it was the beginning of the end.

    And now, as I watch this influx of news for this rebooted Thief series, as I witness Garrett being turned from a practical, minimal, world weary, sarcastic, reluctant hero, into a stringy, angsty, escape artist/assassin I can feel that sinking feeling in my gut that I've felt at other times, and I know yet another franchise has been rooted up and twisted in favor of mainstream audiences who just want to sit around with a bunch of friends, drink a few cheap beers, and get right into the action.


    You can get mad and bent out of shape all you want, the odds are NOT in our favor. I sincerely hope that I'm wrong, and I am indeed just an entitled elitist PC gamer and this game will exceed all expectations, but realistically, It won't.
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  20. #20
    Originally Posted by Ikana
    Amen, I don't think it's to late to doomsday prophesy. The initial wave of information released for a game contains what the developers consider CORE gameplay mechanics and elements. The further we get to the release date, the more the finer details and specifics will be put to light. This first bundle of info contains information regarding stealthy mechanics only in bulleted lists basically, and the rest of these interviews, articles and whatnot all talk about

    Assassins creed Inspiration
    Dishonored Inspirations
    Action orientated gameplay mechanics
    Batman inspirations
    Garrett being inspired (despite already being an original, fully developed character) by the likes of sociopathic killer clowns (aka the joker) and having an intentionally "gothy" character design "we had to remove the black nail polish"
    Focus (obviously there for potato head mainstream "gamers")

    As I watched information for Mass-effect 3 leak out I knew from the get-go that EA had ruined another franchise

    As I watched information leak out for Dragon Age 2, I knew it was the beginning of the end.

    And now, as I watch this influx of news for this rebooted Thief series, as I witness Garrett being turned from a practical, minimal, world weary, sarcastic, reluctant hero, into a stringy, angsty, escape artist/assassin I can feel that sinking feeling in my gut that I've felt at other times, and I know yet another franchise has been rooted up and twisted in favor of mainstream audiences who just want to sit around with a bunch of friends, drink a few cheap beers, and get right into the action.


    You can get mad and bent out of shape all you want, the odds are NOT in our favor. I sincerely hope that I'm wrong, and I am indeed just an entitled elitist PC gamer and this game will exceed all expectations, but realistically, It won't.
    I think more than any of the revealed gameplay elements is simply the language they use. They aren't even dodging questions or trying to change the subject when comparisons previous installments are brought up, they're outright saying they're making it for "modern console gamers." I suppose it's better in some ways than when developers know fans of the older games aren't going to like the changes, but keep avoiding the subject as long as possible and pretending to care about the older games, even though they know the mainstream audience is going more than make up for people who don't like the direction they took it.

  21. #21
    Originally Posted by Lmaoboat
    I think more than any of the revealed gameplay elements is simply the language they use. They aren't even dodging questions or trying to change the subject when comparisons previous installments are brought up, they're outright saying they're making it for "modern console gamers." I suppose it's better in some ways than when developers know fans of the older games aren't going to like the changes, but keep avoiding the subject as long as possible and pretending to care about the older games, even though they know the mainstream audience is going more than make up for people who don't like the direction they took it.
    :/ gameplay should never be ruined on the primary system for the sake of gameplay on the lesser system, quite frankly i don't care if console gamers don't enjoy a game like thief in the same way i don't care if console gamers enjoy starcraft II. Neither are meant for the console and both are designed for a slower pace to think out and puzzle out what to do, i loved the fact that i could spend an hour plus exploring a thief level, what i loved even more? i didn't even notice an hour had passed because it was that engaging.

  22. #22
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    Dumbing down: Are hard games a hard sell these days?

    I don't necessarily mean hard--just challenging. There seems to be this prevailing idea that a 'modern gamer' (meaning young people?) will simply stop playing if they feel remotely challenged. I'm wondering if this is a well-researched truth, or just something that publishers have convinced themselves of. I wonder if the 'modern gamer' archetype is something they've invented in their heads.

    It's not like anyone's predisposition is set in stone, so if that is true now, why wasn't it true before? A 12 year old today should have the same attention span and frustration-tolerance as a 12 year old 10 years ago. If that's not so, what the hell happened? And i'm not convinced it is so: show me the research!

    It seems like some modern games are meticulously crafted to make you feel threatened, while having you be in little actual danger of losing. It gives you an illusory sense of accomplishment. And it _can_ fool you, unless you actually try to get yourself killed and discover "hey, I can't actually fall here even though the situation suggests it", or "this AI is actually slow as hell to attack", or "wow, Lara Croft auto-corrects my poorly aimed jump".

    Even if standards are dropping on the consumer end, I think there's a market of gamers out there who are starved for old school gameplay. I don't think it's too much to ask that games appeal to every person on the spectrum, casual AND hardcore. And i don't think challenging gameplay is as off-putting as devs seem to believe. Why do they believe it?

    If anything, the hardcore market is only growing--because gamers get better at gaming as they grow older and have played more games.

  23. #23
    I wish Thief was used as the inspiration and soul for the new Thief rather than all these other franchises and modernizations that distracted them for a while. If that had been done, the game might've been out already. Then again, I am looking forward to it being a PS4/next-gen title. Granted, if classic Thief was the focused direction from the start, they might've had Thi4f in 2012 or 2013, and Thi5f in 2013 or 2014. But I do hope all this time results in a nicely polished and large first Thief effort that outshines the originals without destroying what it means to be "Thief."

  24. #24
    This just keeps getting worse and worse. I liked it better when they were ignoring us.
    But I'm right.

  25. #25
    Originally Posted by negative_len
    This just keeps getting worse and worse. I liked it better when they were ignoring us.
    You know, I think I can find a post of mine that says LITERALLY the same thing word for word from when they started releasing news about Deus Ex.
    Speed up the accelerating returns, 'cause carbon doesn’t work, I want to evolve and operate at terahertz.

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