Thread: "Garrett is now doing more action moves."

"Garrett is now doing more action moves."

  1. #26
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    Originally Posted by Shralla
    You know, I think I can find a post of mine that says LITERALLY the same thing word for word from when they started releasing news about Deus Ex.
    For the record, how did that turn out?
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  2. #27
    Originally Posted by Master Taffer
    For the record, how did that turn out?
    Before, or after everybody complained about the highlighting feature?

  3. #28
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    Originally Posted by Chilliwack
    AAA blockbuster action movies(Sherlock Holmes, The Crow, The Dark Knight), as opposed to quality literature and classic film noire. .
    You are saying that the Crow is an AAA blockbuster action movie? Oh man!
    "Not all shadows are cast by light, some are cast by darkness."

  4. #29
    Originally Posted by Shralla
    You know, I think I can find a post of mine that says LITERALLY the same thing word for word from when they started releasing news about Deus Ex.
    I felt the same way when they revealed details about Human Revolution.

    Then it came out and blew me away. Not quite as great as the original, but Eidos Montreal have forever earned my trust through their quality modern take on the franchise.

  5. #30
    Originally Posted by Master Taffer
    For the record, how did that turn out?
    IMO about as good as could have been expected of a "reboot" of a mostly dead franchise with a new dev team at the helm. Definitely there were things I wish had been done differently, but ultimately what we ended up with was a fairly good take on the Deus Ex formula, that seemed limited not necessarily by consoles or their ideology, but also in the team not having the resources to produce the detail they would have liked.

    For the next one, I'm hoping they take more than a few cues from Dishonored, which I've always considered to be more of a melee-oriented DX-like rather than a Thief-like. Specifically the retaining the first-person viewpoint. If I had one big complaint about the new Deus Ex it was the whole third-person takedown/ability usage thing.

    In the end, the highlighting didn't bother me except that it seemed to highlight the lack of interactivity in the world rather than emphasizing what was there. Like I said, I get the feeling that they didn't have the money to license an engine with a good physics engine running alongside it, and opted to go their own, more efficient route.
    Speed up the accelerating returns, 'cause carbon doesn’t work, I want to evolve and operate at terahertz.

  6. #31
    I like the comments on this article:

    http://www.vg247.com/2013/03/14/thie...-action-focus/

    "modern audience" "action moves", that's really bad. Garrett is a thief, not a fighter, not a good climber that can go everywhere, I don't want another altair or ezio. If I want that, I just play assassin's creed,not thief.
    I don't speak good english, sorry. French speaker here.

  7. #32
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    Originally Posted by Lmaoboat
    "We wanted to change him more for the modern audience; for today's console market."

    I'm surprised developers are able to say this without a hint if irony these days. Like it's such obvious PR doublespeak, that it's literally just a more patronizing way of saying, "You know that stuff you loved about your game? The LCD won't like it, so off it goes"
    Yes, is it really so much that those of us who wanted a real, quiet, minimal action stealth game that relies on quick wits and cunning weren't allowed to have it because the action inspired console kiddies have to take precedence?

    There isn't one game on the market now that doesn't contain a major element of hack and slash. At this rate, those of us who want a game with minimal action will have to be satisfied with Dress Up Barbie.
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  8. #33
    Yeah, because everything that we're told so far basically points out in the direction of Thief having "a major element of hack and slash"! I mean, seriously, these kind of uninformed hyperboles have to go, they do nothing but spread misinformation and vitriol, both of which have been more than abundant on this forum already.
    ~You reap what you sow~

  9. #34
    Originally Posted by Tryst
    Yes, is it really so much that those of us who wanted a real, quiet, minimal action stealth game that relies on quick wits and cunning weren't allowed to have it because the action inspired console kiddies have to take precedence?

    There isn't one game on the market now that doesn't contain a major element of hack and slash. At this rate, those of us who want a game with minimal action will have to be satisfied with Dress Up Barbie.
    That, or somebody with game design experience will make a REAL spiritual successor to Thief on Kickstarter, like Brian Fargo is currently doing with Torment.

    But hey, maybe EM will surprise us. I hope they do, but right now it just looks more bleak than Garrett's complexion.

  10. #35
    Auricgoldfinger wrote: There seems to be this prevailing idea that a 'modern gamer' (meaning young people?) will simply stop playing if they feel remotely challenged. I'm wondering if this is a well-researched truth, or just something that publishers have convinced themselves of. I wonder if the 'modern gamer' archetype is something they've invented in their heads.
    I've asked and was gonna re-ask after this new news, but then I realized the answer is probably just "the history of game sales." Big sellers have health regen. And mindless action. And simplified gameplay, etc. So this becomes the recipe of a modern gamer.

    That, and the data developers collect over the Internet now about how only a minor portion of gamers actually finish games. Devs want to simplify the experience and make sure players stay engaged at all times until the end so we don't miss out on what they want us to see, no matter the consequences to game complexity. Puzzles have to be designed so people don't get too frustrated, but feel a sense of accomplishment. (This, more or less, was stated at a GDC presentation that EM was in. I think it was even an EM person speaking it.)

    That, and with all of the distractions around us, I guess they figure many have short attention spans, so why not cater to this and make the experience more casual so the gamer doesn't lose interest. (Apparently action is the solution? Rather than stealth gameplay that may or may not be engaging to many.)

  11. #36
    Originally Posted by DarknessFalls
    I've asked and was gonna re-ask after this new news, but then I realized the answer is probably just "the history of game sales." Big sellers have health regen. And mindless action. And simplified gameplay, etc. So this becomes the recipe of a modern gamer.

    That, and the data developers collect over the Internet now about how only a minor portion of gamers actually finish games. Devs want to simplify the experience and make sure players stay engaged at all times until the end so we don't miss out on what they want us to see.

    That, and with all of the distractions around us, I guess they figure many have short attention spans, so why not cater to this and make the experience more casual so the gamer doesn't lose interest.
    Seems to me that publishers are focused only on keeping attention with flash and action. But that wears thin very quickly, it's no wonder so few people actually finish games. Thief 1/2/3 though... They mastered tension and suspense. Those things didn't just pull you back when you got distracted. They were GRIPPING. They held your attention tight, by making you almost afraid to look away.

    Thief may not be an actual HORROR game, meant to terrify the players... but EM could learn a lot from the success of Amnesia: The Dark Descent. Now there's a game that gripped you tightly without being flashy.

  12. #37
    Today you can see a tendency, back to the old game mechanics.
    Look at Dishonored - this is an old-school game with classical mechanics, system savegame. Good story.
    All this has ensured the success of the game and good sales.
    And vice versa, the modern game with excellent graphics and lots of unnecessary bring only disappointment.
    Keep the balance.

  13. #38
    Well, just lets go and retrieve the gaming industry at the period of Thief...

    It was full of fast paced action games; and Thief was an of very few which stood out, this made Thief so unique and stood out for one and half decade.

    And what new devs do? The developers of Assassin's Creed, which was very popular, but not immersive at all and which got very few fans out of its total players. Their company got rights to make sequel to the father of the genre, and as they have no idea about game, they watch few gameplay videos of Thief, then they go and play stealth game like Dishonor, they take inspiration from stealth system of Skyrim and few others, which were developed by the developers of Thief(or those members of Looking Glass, which left the company before they've released T1)... And as they have no knowledge, no willing to make a stealth game but are paid to, they just copy-paste very few random elements from original and make their action oriented stealth game...

    But they forgot one very easy fact, that Thief 1 was so good because of very same reason why new Thief won't be: slow pace. Now, as back then, games were action shooters, just gore element partially switched into rapid paced gameplay... What market really needs is a slow, but very interesting game again, which, unfortunately this game may not be as it had to be.

  14. #39
    @auricgoldfinger

    No, "Dark Souls" is the biggest proof against that.
    The game was considered so hard, that the pc-gaming websites along with the pc-gamers itself started a petition to bring the game to pc (it was never intended to come to pc).
    It was the fact that finally a game was challenging and worth playing that caught so many players attention.

    Having said this, i have no idea why they insist on dumbing down the games. It feels like it's gonna be a "press the button to win" game. (press focus to win)

  15. #40
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    Sickening

    Using a chain attack, Garrett grabs the guard’s arm, jerks it back behind his shoulder, and then plants a heel against the guard’s knee. Bones snap with a sickening crack, and the man collapses against the stone floor in agony.
    Clink!! Clank! Wham!!! Clink!!! Clank! Clink!! CRACK!!!! Ungh!!! ARRRGH!!! Thud!! Arrrrrrrghhhhh....

    Oooooooh. Holy Clatterfest, Batman! Nnnnnifty.

    I mean, seriously, y'all... these kind of specific citations of what Eidos is os prominently proud of as to have it featured in the crafted promo-article have got to be hightlighted, they do everything to illustrate just what everyone (but the ready-made apologists) are talking about. This forum needs to maintain and and grow more and more clamorous with each new reveal of such horrible "developments". Surely it's welcome? This clamor? It seems the developers love clamor!

  16. #41
    I'm 99% certain that those of us who want a quiet stealth game with minimal action will have it. I think the marketing will heavily skew toward the action elements because that's what will sell the game. The hope is that some of those sales expose players to stealth and broaden the market for that type of release.

    Look at the trailers and marketing for Dishonored. Everything they advertised was the awesome, bloody ways Corvo could murder everyone in his path, yet the game played very well (and the Chaos system even made it the "correct" way to play) as a quiet stealth title with minimal action. Don't confuse how a game is marketed, which unquestionably has to cater to the biggest demographic, with how the game will play.
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  17. #42
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    Originally Posted by tarvis79
    I'm 99% certain that those of us who want a quiet stealth game with minimal action will have it. I think the marketing will heavily skew toward the action elements because that's what will sell the game. The hope is that some of those sales expose players to stealth and broaden the market for that type of release.

    Look at the trailers and marketing for Dishonored. Everything they advertised was the awesome, bloody ways Corvo could murder everyone in his path, yet the game played very well (and the Chaos system even made it the "correct" way to play) as a quiet stealth title with minimal action. Don't confuse how a game is marketed, which unquestionably has to cater to the biggest demographic, with how the game will play.
    Action also tends to be far more visualling interesting for a marketing campaign than something extremely slow and methodical. If you just showed Garrett slinking in the shadows and buying his time, you'd give the impression that nothing happens in your game. Marketing is supposed to share a visually appealing slice of the game while reflecting how the game plays. With stealth games, this becomes hard because of how inherently slow the games tend to be.

    Just look at the marketing material for just about any stealth game and you'll find a ton of action shots and combat. Thief is no exception.
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  18. #43
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    Giving someone the option doesn't mean it's the encouraged or best option to take. Just look at TDP and TMA - you were handed a sword and you knew you had the ability to employ it, but I'll be damned if it was often the best idea. Had the fighter AI in thief been even slightly more competent there would no "Sword masters".

    As they indicated, his breaking someone's leg resulted in alot of loud calamity, there's no way anyone doesn't think there's an intruder around now.
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  19. #44
    Originally Posted by tarvis79
    I'm 99% certain that those of us who want a quiet stealth game with minimal action will have it. I think the marketing will heavily skew toward the action elements because that's what will sell the game.
    Yeah... Look at the trailers and cutscenes for The Dark Project and see just how many explosions / sword fights / chasing there is.

  20. #45
    Originally Posted by tarvis79
    I'm 99% certain that those of us who want a quiet stealth game with minimal action will have it. I think the marketing will heavily skew toward the action elements because that's what will sell the game. The hope is that some of those sales expose players to stealth and broaden the market for that type of release.
    If it's the action elements that sell (which is true) then why wouldn't they make that game instead of just marketing it? Eidos doesn't give any more of a c**nt about keeping true to the Thief franchise than the average 360 enthusiast does, so I think it's a bit naive to think they are secretly making the game Thief fans truly want. The absolute last thing any publisher wants to do is broaden the market these days.

  21. #46
    Originally Posted by tarvis79
    I'm 99% certain that those of us who want a quiet stealth game with minimal action will have it. I think the marketing will heavily skew toward the action elements because that's what will sell the game. The hope is that some of those sales expose players to stealth and broaden the market for that type of release.

    Look at the trailers and marketing for Dishonored. Everything they advertised was the awesome, bloody ways Corvo could murder everyone in his path, yet the game played very well (and the Chaos system even made it the "correct" way to play) as a quiet stealth title with minimal action. Don't confuse how a game is marketed, which unquestionably has to cater to the biggest demographic, with how the game will play.
    I hope you're right. I still dislike "Focus" though...Although I'm not completely against it, i just dislike that it highlights loot and path. Like i said before, it seems like a "push this to win" mechanic.

  22. #47
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    Originally Posted by tarvis79
    Don't confuse how a game is marketed, which unquestionably has to cater to the biggest demographic, with how the game will play.
    Ah.

    I get it. Right. Don't pay any attention to what is evident. Just have faith in what you want to believe no matter how much that flies in the face of what is evident.

    • The Catholic Church is Holy, not an abject perversion.
    • The environment is fine, pollution has no effect.
    • It's certainly a certain certainty (99%!) that Thief (rebooted!) will be a quiet stealth game with minimal action, all these public statements say otherwise is just a kweveruse.
    • Disco is dead...

  23. #48
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    You are perverting tarvis' post with irrelevant examples.
    "Not all shadows are cast by light, some are cast by darkness."

  24. #49
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    Those are perfect examples of blind faith. And tarvis' statement fits right in there.

    Whereas it wouldn't necessarily fit with, say, a silly, senseless, platitudinous bit of jibberish like "not all shadows are cast by light, some are cast by darkness."

  25. #50
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    Now you are striking my signature. Good, very intelligent of you.
    "Not all shadows are cast by light, some are cast by darkness."

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