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Thread: "Garrett is a regular guy with no superpowers." O RLY?

"Garrett is a regular guy with no superpowers." O RLY?

  1. #1

    "Garrett is a regular guy with no superpowers." O RLY?

    I've seen it said a number of times that Garrett is just supposed to be a regular schmoe with no super or supernatural powers. I disagree. In fact, while it doesn't say so directly, I believe that the Thief games strongly hint that Keeper stealth, which of course Garrett is a master of, is not entirely a "natural" ability.

    Watch the training mission intro from Thief 1 carefully: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYROJeFOse8

    Note how Garrett describes Artemus the first time he sees him: "One night I saw a man. Folks just passed him by like he wasn't there."

    In other words, it wasn't that Artemus was obviously hiding and slinking around in dark corners where you wouldn't normally see a person (though it was night, so he'd benefit from the same darkness Garrett does). He was walking around among people, in such a way that you would normally expect people to see him, but for some reason they couldn't, and just kept walking as if he weren't there. This would explain how Garrett can be completely invisible to a guard while standing a mere foot away from his face, just by finding a tiny little patch of shadow in an otherwise-lit hallway. I'm also reminded of that part in Thief II, where Artemus disappears in plain sight.

    Also, notice Artemus' response when Garrett tries to pickpocket him:

    "You have talent, lad.... To see a Keeper is not an easy thing, especially one who does not wish to be seen."

    In other words, this is a power that Keepers have in general (which means Garrett would learn it when he underwent Keeper training), and Garrett was apparently also born with unusual perceptive ability, such that he was able to see through the mind-clouding effects of Keeper stealth without even deliberately trying, and see Artemus as he really was.

  2. #2
    If this is a reason to justify the 'Focus' ability then... Yeah, maybe.

    I remember people using a similar thing to explain the loot glint in Deadly Shadows. But I think the point kinda was that the player could take advantage of Garrett's Keeper trained abilities to hide in shadow, but it was still up to them to pickpocket at the right time, and fumble with a flashbomb when discovered, etc, rather than entering a slow motion mode.

  3. #3
    Having a keen eye for unusual things doesn't make you superhuman.

    I found a penny on the street the other day. Other people passed it by without noticing it.

    Does that mean I have super-vision?

  4. #4
    ^


    "Stay in the shadows, avoid the light." Sounds like keeper magic to me.

  5. #5
    but Garrett left his training as a keeper, remember? So I don't think Garrett ever had the ability to run around unseen as Keepers were, instead he mastered the ability of remaining unseen because he remained unthreatening and kept to the shadows. More often than not no one gives Garrett the time of day unless he bothers them.

    I don't believe Garrett was given any sort of powers until maybe after Deadly Shadows, where he is the last true keeper, or whatever.

    This focus ability might be affiliated with his eye, if they want to explain it that way, and that wasn't Keeper magic or supernatural at all. Who knows!
    Calls The Serpents To The Heels Of My Foes! Calls The Ravens To Pecks Their Eyes!
    Calls The Jackals, Carry Thems Away. Their Children To Gnaw Bones In The Night!

  6. #6
    Originally Posted by Nephthys
    but Garrett left his training as a keeper, remember? So I don't think Garrett ever had the ability to run around unseen as Keepers were, instead he mastered the ability of remaining unseen because he remained unthreatening and kept to the shadows. More often than not no one gives Garrett the time of day unless he bothers them.
    The most
    promising
    acolyte
    left us,

    not out of the
    lesser folly
    of sentiment,

    but the greater
    folly of anger.

    His heart was
    clouded, and
    his balance was
    lost, but his
    abilities were
    unmatched.


    Even then,
    we knew to
    watch him
    most carefully.

    --Keeper Annals

  7. #7
    I wouldn't say that necessarily means he learned all the ins and outs of the magic of the Keepers. He's a smart cookie to begin with, it's possible they were talking about his abilities as a person, not as a keeper?

    In any case, if he did have the ability to run around unseen as keepers did, he didn't do a very good job at it.
    Calls The Serpents To The Heels Of My Foes! Calls The Ravens To Pecks Their Eyes!
    Calls The Jackals, Carry Thems Away. Their Children To Gnaw Bones In The Night!

  8. #8
    Originally Posted by Blue Sky
    If this is a reason to justify the 'Focus' ability then... Yeah, maybe.
    Not really. I've thought for a long time that Garrett's hiding ability was meant to be seen as preternaturally augmented by his Keeper training. I was just reminded of it by all the people complaining that he doesn't have any special abilities in response to the news about Focus.

    His ability to hide in plain sight right in front of someone's face just doesn't make sense otherwise. Sure, he uses darkness, but it's not like it's so dark that the guards can't see where they're going otherwise, and he often hides in a small shadowy area of a room that is otherwise lit on all sides of him.

    Also, Artemus' remarks at the beginning imply that his ability is ubiquitous to Keepers, so surely Garrett, Master Thief and most promising acolyte with abilities unmatched that he is, would have learned that most basic Keeper ability.

    As I see it, I'm just putting two and two together here. We know Keepers have this ability. We know Garrett was trained by them and was their best student. And we see that Garrett is able to be unseen in plain sight, in ways that stretch any kind of credibility. The obvious implication is that he's learned that hiding ability he saw Artemus use at the beginning.

    More relevant to the Focus ability, I guess, would be Artemus' statement that Garrett's perceptive talents are unusually noteworthy, such that he's able to see Keepers.

  9. #9
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    Garrett's talent is not magic, it is natural. Keepers use magic, no doubt, but he left them, as Nephthys said.
    He used magic only TDS, and remember, he said when he first used "It not that bad work for Keepers after all." or something like that. You can understand from that, he never used magic before.
    "Not all shadows are cast by light, some are cast by darkness."

  10. #10
    Heh, maybe one of us should just email the original game designers and ask them. Question of the ages, LOL.

  11. #11
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    It would be the best.
    "Not all shadows are cast by light, some are cast by darkness."

  12. #12
    When I first played TDP, I thought that Garrett just had a high level of natural awareness and perception when he spotted Artemus. Then when TDS came along, I thought that it was a superhuman ability tied to the Keeper Compund being invisible and Garrett's ability to see glyphs nobody else could. That he can see the unseen.

  13. #13
    Originally Posted by The Youth Counselor
    When I first played TDP, I thought that Garrett just had a high level of natural awareness and perception when he spotted Artemus. Then when TDS came along, I thought that it was a superhuman ability tied to the Keeper Compund being invisible and Garrett's ability to see glyphs nobody else could. That he can see the unseen.
    Or perhaps he was just trained to see glyphs.

  14. #14
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    Originally Posted by Chilliwack
    Or perhaps he was just trained to see glyphs.
    Or perhaps he was *clears throat* ...the one true keeper? Maybe that had something to do with it?

  15. #15
    He basically is the one true keeper. If you really think about it, The Keepers didn't really do much in the first two games beyond teaching Garrett how to swing on ropes and climb walls. Garrett's been making sure the two religious orders don't overpower one another. He's the ultimate true neutral and he's been doing the Keepers' jobs since the first game.

  16. #16
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    We don't know nothing about his Keeper training, what we see is just a little tiny part of it. We know they teach him to read glyphs for example. I am pretty sure they trained him more than we know.
    "Not all shadows are cast by light, some are cast by darkness."

  17. #17
    He was a young orphan kid when he entered. He looks about middle school aged in the intro. We don't know how old when he left "out of anger," but he was presumably fairly mature and able to strike out on his own. He must've been there for several years at least.

    Also, recall Garrett's last words in the intro: "It was the beginning of a very long education."

  18. #18
    Originally Posted by The Deuce
    He was a young orphan kid when he entered. He looks about middle school aged in the intro. We don't know how old when he left "out of anger," but he was presumably fairly mature and able to strike out on his own. He must've been there for several years at least.

    Also, recall Garrett's last words in the intro: "It was the beginning of a very long education."
    I think I read somewhere that Garrett left the keepers in his mid-20s.

  19. #19
    No it's not just a natural ability..But this idea was so carefully put by the developers that they just opened a possibility for us to speak about it, and choose what to believe...But it is not a just natural ability. Remember the third eye in the original thief intro that appeared on the trickster God? that too is just an indication of his supernatural power just very subtly put not to mend with peoples interests. So even though all this is just speculation we have all known in a way and had this feeling that there is a darker part to his abilities. So it is good that you have noticed this.

  20. #20
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    Originally Posted by cofiking
    No it's not just a natural ability.
    Yes, it is.
    Originally Posted by cofiking
    Remember the third eye in the original thief intro that appeared on the trickster God? that too is just an indication of his supernatural power just very subtly put not to mend with peoples interests.
    How can Trickster's eye indicate that Garrett has supernatural powers? Can you explain that a little, please?
    "Not all shadows are cast by light, some are cast by darkness."

  21. #21
    no I am sorry if you didn't get it while reading my post then that is the way things are. Try to feel what I am saying. It's not that I don't want to explain I just can't because English is not my native language and also I have some other interference's. The eye on the trickster was always for me one of the subtle signs that there are more things going on in the world of thief that go beyond normal abilities, and also what Deuce already said, I agree with him completely this is just another detail I choose to put in here. They put this dilemma for us so we could't really know does he have some power or is he just a very good sneak. The question kind of drifts in the air and stirs wonder in us like branches in the night sky that move subtly in the wind. And they put it so well that we can only choose for ourselves what to believe and wonder what is going on. The third eye that opens doesn't define the trickster God, it is a symbol and it can be seen as window into the Unknown. Which is why the devs carefully implemented it there. All these signs give a very good dark and mystical effect to the game, which is just one of the reasons it is so good. I don't say that he definitively has a dark power nor that he is a complete natural, it is something in the middle, undefinable, something you can't quite grasp, like a shadow, and that what makes it so interesting for me.

  22. #22
    Yeah. I agree here. I've always thought that Garrett is special not only in terms of his abilities, but probably have got also some powers from keeper training. Actually it would do the game more logical, as the OP said. I believe that it was more... er... possible in the first game. I mean that in each game of the series Garrett seems to become simpler a bit - more thief less magic.
    By the way I was fine with shining valuable objects in the DS game, but I explained it simply as the result of Garrett's superior experitnce in stealing) But the new Focus worries me. I'm afraid there will be some quests that you won't be able to complete without magical x-ray...

  23. #23
    He's not a regular guy. Thanks to circumstances. He met many and all kinds of people, seen a lot, heard a lot, uncovered many secrets, went through hell, both literally (maw xD) and metaphorically.. Few times.. If YOU went through that s**t you couldn't be "regular"! Not only to say he got the mechanical eye, a keeper training, talent for thieving and staying in the shadows, a certain amount of arrogance and loads of luck..

    But he's not a superhero in the supernatural sense.. He's more like a Django of thieving =)

    More importantly, he is trying to be "a regular guy", because he doesn't want to stand out and attract attention

  24. #24
    cofiking:

    I think you put it very well, and I agree. The developers put hints in the game that Garrett's stealth was something more than just being good at hiding, such that players could put it together if they wanted to, but they also deliberately made it subtle and mysterious (just like Garrett and the Keepers themselves, and much else in the Thief world) instead of saying so explicitly.

  25. #25
    Or perhaps there is no magic. Before I get flamed just listen: If Garrett were to utilize the way that humans don't notice things unless their looking for them then magic is obsolete. Maybe the keeper compound is hidden because people don't want to see it if you can make something boring enough then it will drive the eye away rather than attracting it.

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