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Thread: Lara & Sam! | please read OP before posting!

  1. #2001
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    Quote Originally Posted by Driber View Post
    Then you haven't been paying close enough attention
    lol, i have. just missed that one particular word "many" to clarify what i really mend. my bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Driber View Post
    Mature? Us? Don't make me laugh

    thats why i put a "" there

    Quote Originally Posted by dark7angel View Post
    I actually hope her friendship with Sam is one of the things that starts to deteriorate... specially because it's the one relationship we've actually seen! So in order to truly portray how Lara's obsession is isolating her, we should see her growing distant from Sam.

    an interesting view but also pretty cold of lara if she would go in to this direction.
    she has a true friend she can trust and just giving it up for her jobs sake, is pretty selfish and arrogant. not sure if i would like this character if it turns out to be true.
    but thats everyones opinion i guess.
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  2. #2002
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    Quote Originally Posted by dark7angel View Post
    I actually hope her friendship with Sam is one of the things that starts to deteriorate... specially because it's the one relationship we've actually seen! So in order to truly portray how Lara's obsession is isolating her, we should see her growing distant from Sam.

    Truth to be told, I don't like Lara having a person who keeps getting into trouble around her, but I do think that would be too much drama.

    Lara should start growing distant from everyone around her (not just one person) and that way discover 'who she really is' or something like that.

  3. #2003
    Quote Originally Posted by Metalrocks View Post
    she has a true friend she can trust and just giving it up for her jobs sake, is pretty selfish and arrogant.
    I'm not sure it would be a conscious decision for Lara to move away from Sam. More like the aftereffects of what happened on Yamatai.

  4. #2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by pirate1802 View Post
    I'm not sure it would be a conscious decision for Lara to move away from Sam. More like the aftereffects of what happened on Yamatai.
    well, now we are assuming that they will break up. he dint really say that lara will not have any friends at all.
    but still, his answer kind of points in to this direction.

    unless both of them agree that they cant be seeing each other anymore because of laras lust for adventure and both feel bad about it but still keep in touch every now and then, i can accept it more or less.
    but if lara just tells her they cant be friends anymore because she likes to travel around the world alone and doesnt want any burden around her, thats pretty messed up in my view. understandable, but not very nice.

    why point out their friendship, after saying that sam is very important to lara, and later on destroy it??

    i hope in the future, they will clarify their status.
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  5. #2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metalrocks View Post
    well, now we are assuming that they will break up. he dint really say that lara will not have any friends at all.
    but still, his answer kind of points in to this direction.
    Actually no... he said she won't have rooms for love... but I think we really can't say if she'll have friends or not.

    I hope she'll hire Winston!

  6. #2006
    I'd like them to stay in contact. Probably they will be, given how important she was in this game. She might even make new acquaintences along the way because Lara being 100% cut off from the world doesn't make for a very interesting character imo. I just don't see them being "together" or even on the previous level of friendship. And I think its natural honestly, because as my friend once said, she gains a level of badass on the island, but that sort of experience doesn't come without its downsides. To quote from Dead Space: The Marker (island) changes everyone.

  7. #2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivana KC View Post
    Lara should start growing distant from everyone around her (not just one person) and that way discover 'who she really is' or something like that.
    Well, yes, that's what I meant, that Lara should start growing distant fromall her friends. I focused on Sam on my post as a reply to Metal who hopes that Lara at least keeps her friendship to Sam.


    Quote Originally Posted by Metalrocks View Post
    unless both of them agree that they cant be seeing each other anymore because of laras lust for adventure and both feel bad about it but still keep in touch every now and then, i can accept it more or less.
    but if lara just tells her they cant be friends anymore because she likes to travel around the world alone and doesnt want any burden around her, thats pretty messed up in my view. understandable, but not very nice.
    I don't think it's a case of Lara telling Sam they can't be friends, but more of Lara just gradually isolating herself, like not returning calls 'cause she's too focused on the job.

    I can imagine Sam would be persistent in trying to keep in touch with Lara, she does look like that kind of friend, but Lara would just grow distant without even realizing, you know...

    Quote Originally Posted by Metalrocks View Post
    why point out their friendship, after saying that sam is very important to lara, and later on destroy it??
    Don't forget they were thinking of killing of Sam in the end of TR9, so they probably didn't think much ahead in terms of their friendship...

    But seriously, in order to deconstruct something you have to show it first, I mean it's important that they showed that Lara has a really close friend if they now want to truly show it falling apart!
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  8. #2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metalrocks View Post
    lol, i have. just missed that one particular word "many" to clarify what i really mend. my bad.
    Mending again, are you? Heh

    thats why i put a "" there
    I know you were joking. I was running with it

    an interesting view but also pretty cold of lara if she would go in to this direction.
    she has a true friend she can trust and just giving it up for her jobs sake, is pretty selfish and arrogant.
    And Lara being selfish and arrogant would be news to you?

    Don't forget that this is Lara Croft we're talking about here, heh.

    (She just doesn't know it yet )

    Quote Originally Posted by pirate1802 View Post
    I'm not sure it would be a conscious decision for Lara to move away from Sam. More like the aftereffects of what happened on Yamatai.
    How do you figure that?

    I'd argue that going through such an ordeal together makes them closer to each other.

    Quote Originally Posted by Metalrocks View Post
    well, now we are assuming that they will break up. he dint really say that lara will not have any friends at all.
    but still, his answer kind of points in to this direction.

    unless both of them agree that they cant be seeing each other anymore because of laras lust for adventure and both feel bad about it but still keep in touch every now and then, i can accept it more or less.
    lol, "break up"? "can't see each other anymore"?

    You make it sound as if they are a couple

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  9. #2009
    Quote Originally Posted by Driber View Post
    How do you figure that?

    I'd argue that going through such an ordeal together makes them closer to each other.
    She must find answers. That would make her an even more of an introvert than she previously was. Like dark7angel said, she'd be probably too engrossed in her studies to return Sam's calls etc.

  10. #2010
    I really like the idea with deteriorating her friendship with Sam in order to truly portray how Lara's obsession is isolating her and that we should see her growing distant from Sam and the others.
    That's probably a better solution than any relationship ever mentioned. But as some of you say, would we still like a Lara like this?

    The Tomb Raider Reboot series is young. In my opinion it would fit better in a third game so in the sequel their relationship with Sam has enough time to grow stronger (they could even make her gay) and the "shock" in the third one would be much more intense I think.

    I mean even if lots of us really like Sam, there are many people out there who don't and thought she was really annoying or sth like that. To be honest (and don't get me wrong, I still like everyone of them), I also think the portrayal of their relationship and Sams character was a bit "unextensive" (is "unextensive" a real word?). The same goes for the other characters.

    As an example from another game, I really wanted to rescue Liza or Riley just as killing Vaas or Hoyt (just Hoty actually, Vaas was awesome) in Far Cry 3 but I didn't really care about Grim or Alex or even Mathias that much and I think the reason for that is amongst other things the playtime of the game. Far Cry 3 is almost twice as long as Tomb Raider and they had much more time to portray the characters and I think they should use the Tomb Raider Sequel for doing exactly that and make Laras relationship to the other characters and especially to Sam more extensive.

    And then, like I said, we should see her growing distant from Sam and the others so the "shock" would be more intense.

    Good idea or bull***t? Or have I just copied what everyone else just said and didn't notice? O_o

  11. #2011
    I hope that would also mean no flirting attempts either and if there will be some, hopefully it will be from or for both genders.


    Edit: i'm not surprised by his answer, the game was always about Lara Croft and her adventures.

  12. #2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Driber View Post
    Mending again, are you? Heh

    no, not really. it happened to me several times actually that i dint write the word in i intended to write. dont ask me why.


    Quote Originally Posted by Driber View Post
    I know you were joking. I was running with it

    Quote Originally Posted by Driber View Post
    And Lara being selfish and arrogant would be news to you?

    Don't forget that this is Lara Croft we're talking about here, heh.

    (She just doesn't know it yet )

    you know what i mean.
    lara cared so much for her friends, particularly sam, and even cared for a pilot she never knew. i like to see this side of lara in the next installment as well.


    Quote Originally Posted by Driber View Post
    lol, "break up"? "can't see each other anymore"?

    You make it sound as if they are a couple
    lol, one still can think of it
    damn, i must be really tired. had to work today so my focus is not a 100%.


    Quote Originally Posted by dark7angel View Post
    I don't think it's a case of Lara telling Sam they can't be friends, but more of Lara just gradually isolating herself, like not returning calls 'cause she's too focused on the job.

    I can imagine Sam would be persistent in trying to keep in touch with Lara, she does look like that kind of friend, but Lara would just grow distant without even realizing, you know...
    true, sam does give this impression.

    but when i think of lara not being particularly happy that amanda dint keep in touch after she faked her death, means she did care about their friendship.
    also the black woman in legend (forgot her name) showed that she has friends.

    Quote Originally Posted by dark7angel View Post
    Don't forget they were thinking of killing of Sam in the end of TR9, so they probably didn't think much ahead in terms of their friendship...

    But seriously, in order to deconstruct something you have to show it first, I mean it's important that they showed that Lara has a really close friend if they now want to truly show it falling apart!
    true, but they decided to keep her alive.

    one option to explain (a dramatic one) that lara doesnt want close friends anymore, would be that sam dies after being still influenced by the queen and lara was forced to kill her.

    just a thought.
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  13. #2013
    Quote Originally Posted by VaBanes View Post
    I really like the idea with deteriorating her friendship with Sam in order to truly portray how Lara's obsession is isolating her and that we should see her growing distant from Sam and the others.
    That's probably a better solution than any relationship ever mentioned. But as some of you say, would we still like a Lara like this?

    The Tomb Raider Reboot series is young. In my opinion it would fit better in a third game so in the sequel their relationship with Sam has enough time to grow stronger (they could even make her gay) and the "shock" in the third one would be much more intense I think.

    And then, like I said, we should see her growing distant from Sam and the others so the "shock" would be more intense.

    Good idea or bull***t? Or have I just copied what everyone else just said and didn't notice? O_o
    I touched on this a few weeks ago.

    Since mainstream Lara has a total disregard for life, but the new Lara can still claim - although questionably - self-defense for her killings, there will inevitably be a transition between the two types of Lara. And then there's the bit where Sam has never appeared in a TR installment before.

    What I'm thinking is this: In TR10 Lara and Sam continue to be friends and in fact get closer due to similar experiences. However, due to Lara's sociopathic actions and her murderous attitude, Sam becomes increasingly uneasy about continuing to help her. Then when Sam questions Lara on why she's doing this, Lara can give an indifferent or flimsy response such as "All self-defense!" , "They had it coming." , or "No one will miss them."

    Then, maybe near the end of TR10 or sometime in TR11, Lara does something that in Sam's eyes is unforgivable. Examples being: Lara shoots everyone in a museum to get a shiny thing (To Sam an act of mass murder), or Lara blows up a skyscraper to kill her arch-enemy (To Sam an act of terrorism). When Lara again remains indifferent, the enemy of the day secretly enlists Sam's help because the enemy said that they will do everything possible to stop Lara. A few missions later, when Lara figures this out due to oddly smart enemies and an evasive Sam, she confronts and shoots Sam out of anger. After realizing she just killed Sam, Lara goes frantic. Cut to credits.

    And THAT is your shock. This would also ensure that Sam does not become another Amanda since she would still be heroic and good all the way to her death.

  14. #2014
    Quote Originally Posted by Metalrocks View Post

    one option to explain (a dramatic one) that lara doesnt want close friends anymore, would be that sam dies after being still influenced by the queen and lara was forced to kill her.

    just a thought.
    Tbh, I hope they won't do that. A death just to show how Lara stopped caring about having friends or something would've been lame and overused. Sam understanding that Lara has to do her own thing, but they still talk to each other from time to time would be better. Or Sam helping her in some cases. No matter if Lara does all this stuff alone, she always had help from other people and I don't want Sam to be Amanda no2. Better choose a random girl for this and not Lara's friend.

  15. #2015
    @I_Jedi
    Amen to that.

    Almost. I think there would be better examples than blowing up a skyscraper or shooting everyone in a museum.
    Also, she should stab her instead of shooting her. It's more personal this way. (The Walking Dead - Making-of teached me that. ^^)

    And an thing George R. R. Matrin teached me: Always kill the guy/girl the reader likes the most. If they kill any important character in the next games (especially Sam) the shock should be at least as intense as the shock of the "red wedding". (Don't google that if you don't want to get spoiled.)

  16. #2016
    There is a very simple explanation why Lara would become distant from her friends:

    1. Her obsession with discovering the truth behind supernatural events and willingness to put herself at risk for that are Lara's alone. Unique to her. So is her transformation. It's not a motivation that I see anyone else from the crew would gain from their experience.

    2. Because so many people died or nearly died in part because of her decisions she would not want to drag anyone else into her new reality again.

  17. #2017
    Quote Originally Posted by VaBanes View Post
    @I_Jedi
    Amen to that.

    Almost. I think there would be better examples than blowing up a skyscraper or shooting everyone in a museum.
    Also, she should stab her instead of shooting her. It's more personal this way. (The Walking Dead - Making-of teached me that. ^^)
    A deeply personal event would probably be best for Sam to turn on Lara. For example, say that Sam happens to have parents she really likes, and they happen to be working in a skyscraper. Then, without telling anyone, Lara goes in the scraper and blows it up without telling Sam to get her parents out. Of course, Sam's parents wind up dead, and she reasonably blames Lara for it. Then Sam turns on Lara not only to avenge her parents, but also to ensure that what Lara did to her doesn't happen to other people.

    Of course, this is just an example, the devs may find a more shocking and reasonable reason for Sam to turn on Lara.

    Also, I like your idea of the stabbing instead of shooting.

  18. #2018
    Didn't the already do this with Amanda?

  19. #2019
    Ugh I'd hate for Sam to turn on Lara it would be so predictable.

    CD put Sam (and Roth) in TR for her to be more human and caring so I'd rather not have that flushed down the toilet just for a cheap death or twist in the next game

    Quote Originally Posted by Metalrocks View Post

    but when i think of lara not being particularly happy that amanda dint keep in touch after she faked her death, means she did care about their friendship.
    also the black woman in legend (forgot her name) showed that she has friends.
    Anaya . I was just thinking about her earlier .
    Legend showed us Lara has useful friends I'd like Sam to turn up like that and be a 'useful friend'
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  20. #2020
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wild View Post
    Tbh, I hope they won't do that. A death just to show how Lara stopped caring about having friends or something would've been lame and overused. Sam understanding that Lara has to do her own thing, but they still talk to each other from time to time would be better. Or Sam helping her in some cases. No matter if Lara does all this stuff alone, she always had help from other people and I don't want Sam to be Amanda no2. Better choose a random girl for this and not Lara's friend.
    was just an idea i had. of course there are many other ways to make it happen. lets hope it will not be the case.

    agreed. sam turning on lara would be really like amanda in legend. rather have them as friends, even when they are not much in touch anymore.
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  21. #2021
    Quote Originally Posted by VaBanes View Post

    And an thing George R. R. Matrin teached me: Always kill the guy/girl the reader likes the most. If they kill any important character in the next games (especially Sam) the shock should be at least as intense as the shock of the "red wedding". (Don't google that if you don't want to get spoiled.)
    Oh god, I hope he won't kill off Daenerys! D: I'll kill him myself if he does that. XD

    Jokes aside, I quite disagree with you there, Sam is liked enough but i don't think people would care enough if she gets killed. I personally don't want her to be killed because it's unnecessary. They need to think of new, better motives than making her the big bad or kill her off because they wouldn't think of anything to add.

    Sam accepting Lara's way of life is a nice idea, and maybe helping her discover new places and making some appearances in the future but not all the time.

  22. #2022
    Quote Originally Posted by Wild View Post
    Sam accepting Lara's way of life is a nice idea, and maybe helping her discover new places and making some appearances in the future but not all the time.
    This is how I see Sam in future games as well.

  23. #2023
    Quote Originally Posted by _Ninja_ View Post
    Didn't the already do this with Amanda?
    Amanda is a knights templar villain who hates Lara for poorly justified reasons. Also, the player never actually gets an extended time to see Lara know Amanda as a friend, instead fighting her as the run-of-the-mill villain. Also, both parties have extremely gray, if not outright evil, morality.

    The Sam I suggest would never actually become evil or even gray, in fact, she would be a hero antagonist. Even though both Amanda and the suggested Sam were friends on Lara once, the suggested Sam would be fighting more because she considers Lara to be a villain compared to the Lara she knew. Due to their strong friendship in the past, the suggested Sam would not necessarily want to kill Lara (unless the event that turned her was very drastic), but incapacitate her to stop her from murdering people and maybe try to fix Lara's mind. Think the NSF from Deus Ex, Marines from Prototype and Braid. Also the Republic from KOTOR, BoS from Fallout 3, and NCR from New Vegas if you support the bad guys.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wild View Post
    Jokes aside, I quite disagree with you there, Sam is liked enough but i don't think people would care enough if she gets killed. I personally don't want her to be killed because it's unnecessary. They need to think of new, better motives than making her the big bad or kill her off because they wouldn't think of anything to add.

    Sam accepting Lara's way of life is a nice idea, and maybe helping her discover new places and making some appearances in the future but not all the time.
    Only problem there is that new big bads would either be a generic schlub or a recycled enemy from previous continuities. A Mathias V2 or another Natla would be very run-of-the-mill, in my opinion. I do agree with your last idea in which she occasionally assists against the villain of the day, although one would think that Sam would at least be uneasy about how gung-ho Lara is about killing and stealing things. Of course, this should only apply before she turns. Think Paul from early game Deus Ex for a pre-turn section.

  24. #2024
    Quote Originally Posted by Wild View Post
    i don't think people would care enough if she gets killed
    That's exactly what I meant a few posts before. They should invest more time in making their relationship more extensive and Sam in general more important so people would care about her.
    But that's not the only point. If (for example) Lara kills Sam, this would also define Lara's character. People wouldn't just care about Sam but also (and mabye even more) about Lara and what she has done or sth like that.

    @I_Jedi
    Again, I approve this.

    Or they could do it a bit like Frodo and Sam. Sam (the TR one ^^) helps Lara in her future adventures but over time she notices that Lara has changed in a negative way (caused by the one ring xD). They could also add some sort of "Gollum" who tries to poison Lara and Sam against each other.

  25. #2025
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    I've just read the answer given to MetalRock. I have been pondering a while before to express my opinion. Let's make a step backward when Underworld was released. After playing that game i had the feeling Lara had very low humanity left in her heart. Alister was just been killed and all she could think was how to get the hammer. That Lara let me down a little bit, I still was admiring her baddassery and her courage, but that woman had a stone as heart. Many fans didn't appreciate that heartless Lara and Tomb Raider was close to an end. Then Crystal Dynamyc had the great idea to make a reborn and i do want underlined the word "reborn"; they hired a talented writer and she worked hard to give Lara an human heart. Rhianna showed us how Lara could be both an introvert one with a geeky passion for archeology, and an adorable young girl that look at Sam's camera and say "thanks" with a warm smile. I understand that someone like Lara has no room for a partner, no one here want to see her settle down and raise a couple of kids, but we can't let her strong bond with Sam going to waste.
    I think Sam should be turned in Lara's sidekicks. Probably you are wondering why, well, I'll tell you my point: first of all Sam is necessary to maintain Lara's warm side alive. features like kindness and altruism can only be showed making her interact with another human being.

    If Sam if the only Lara's friend it's because they both share the feeling of being out of place in the world and they both have a passion for travelling and adventure. Yamatai is not only a Lara's thing, Sam is the descendent of the Sun Queen, probably she would easily join to Lara in her next quest, not to become a tomb raider and shoot enemies down but only to do her documenting job, and find out where the hints found by Lara on the island lead.

    The new Tomb raider was not a prequel but a reborn so please Crystal Dynamics don’t let Lara to return a cold and detached woman.

    (Sorry guys if my English is not the best in the world I’m not ignorant it's only that English is not my native language)

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