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Thread: Lara & Sam! | please read OP before posting!

  1. #1976
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    I don't know; maybe it's just me, but I feel like introducing a romance arch into Tomb Raider is just unnecessary. Tomb Raider has always been about Lara versus the world; I wasn't even a fan when they introduced Zip in Chronicles and then the Zip/Alister banter in Legend. Introducing a romance wouldn't do anything for the story, the gameplay or the overall experience. I just don't find it necessary.

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  2. #1977
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    Quote Originally Posted by a big house View Post
    I think if a romantic subplot was introduced into the next game (even if it was Sam), if CD were to just slot it in and not make a big deal out of it, I cannot see it becoming a big issue.
    I think why some people object to it so much (my own speculation I suppose) is they fear it will hijack the gameplay. But when I advocate it, it's about fleshing out the character work for Lara as part of her personality. And like all personality and characterization detailing (such as her courage, strength, resolve, determination, class, wit, sophistication, etc...), these are background details, while the player still engages in the primary action gameplay.

    The key here as you illustrate, is to incorporate a romance (or even just any interaction of attraction) in the same way all other traits are showcased with Lara, so that it isn't made center stage, but just a very normal aspect to her character background, no different than any other traits which gives us that insight to what's beneath the surface.

    Of course we play the game for the exploration, platforming, puzzle solving, and overall the adventure. But like with lots of other action games, they're centered around a character. And with the medium getting better and better at crafting stories around these avatars through which we explore the world, we also want more out of that characterization. That has little to do with the gameplay, but really more to give us a context of the character and their involvement in that adventure.

    This is why we become attached, what gives us a reason to care if they succeed or fail in the missions and objectives, and from which our love and fandom is nurtured. So to that I say, give us even more of the character, that we will truly identify with who Lara is and why we want to join her in those explorations. This is more than just how strong she is or how much ass she kicks, but who she is in between the action... who Lara is as a person. So the social and emotional aspects should not be overlooked.
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  3. #1978
    Hiya guys

    One thing I find interesting about the Lara/Sam shipping is, that a lot of the fanfics and blogs I've read describe the relationship as already 'happening' (for want of a better word) by the time the storyline of TR9 takes place - many of the stories I've read depict them as having been in a relationship since university, or at least pre-Yamatai.


    So, when I think of the game from this point of view its like, the bond between them is there (and there is an infinity of posts already about the scenes in the game that can be seen in this way so I will refrain from details ) if you want to see it that way, but it doesn't overdominate the gameplay. It doesn't really figure much in the gameplay at all.

    I mean, this obviously involves a lot of imagination and daydreaming from players, and it attaches a lot more to the game than perhaps is there already, but I guess that is something that we tend to do when we like a story...well, I do that, anyway

  4. #1979
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    Quote Originally Posted by adobeARTIST View Post
    I think why some people object to it so much (my own speculation I suppose) is they fear it will hijack the gameplay. But when I advocate it, it's about fleshing out the character work for Lara as part of her personality. And like all personality and characterization detailing (such as her courage, strength, resolve, determination, class, wit, sophistication, etc...), these are background details, while the player still engages in the primary action gameplay.

    The key here as you illustrate, is to incorporate a romance (or even just any interaction of attraction) in the same way all other traits are showcased with Lara, so that it isn't made center stage, but just a very normal aspect to her character background, no different than any other traits which gives us that insight to what's beneath the surface.

    Of course we play the game for the exploration, platforming, puzzle solving, and overall the adventure. But like with lots of other action games, they're centered around a character. And with the medium getting better and better at crafting stories around these avatars through which we explore the world, we also want more out of that characterization. That has little to do with the gameplay, but really more to give us a context of the character and their involvement in that adventure.

    This is why we become attached, what gives us a reason to care if they succeed or fail in the missions and objectives, and from which our love and fandom is nurtured. So to that I say, give us even more of the character, that we will truly identify with who Lara is and why we want to join her in those explorations. This is more than just how strong she is or how much ass she kicks, but who she is in between the action... who Lara is as a person. So the social and emotional aspects should not be overlooked.

    my thoughts as well.

    even in serious sam 2 we had a nice explanation about the character. we know he is really stupid, likes women, and enjoys to simply blow/shoot up. there, we have a character we think about and cant forget that easily. wile in part 1 we practically knew nothing about him and therefor we dint care for him. but still an awesome game.

    also max payne has very detailed explained character. its so well written and performed that you care for him, feel his "payne" and what he went through (driber )
    and even the mysterious mona sax was written well that you felt a bit sad when she died at the end. the romance between them was just outstanding. it had no affect over the game play and you still could play as mona. it was integrated so well to the story that it dint feel it is out of place or dint fit in.
    it showed that both have emotions when they are not on the job.

    if lara is in love or not or together with sam or anyone she really cares for, it still would explain a lot about her character how she is in private without thinking or being on the job. just seeing her letting her hair down for once.


    Quote Originally Posted by GLA View Post
    Hiya guys

    One thing I find interesting about the Lara/Sam shipping is, that a lot of the fanfics and blogs I've read describe the relationship as already 'happening' (for want of a better word) by the time the storyline of TR9 takes place - many of the stories I've read depict them as having been in a relationship since university, or at least pre-Yamatai.


    So, when I think of the game from this point of view its like, the bond between them is there (and there is an infinity of posts already about the scenes in the game that can be seen in this way so I will refrain from details ) if you want to see it that way, but it doesn't overdominate the gameplay. It doesn't really figure much in the gameplay at all.

    I mean, this obviously involves a lot of imagination and daydreaming from players, and it attaches a lot more to the game than perhaps is there already, but I guess that is something that we tend to do when we like a story...well, I do that, anyway

    lol. well, that means we care for her/them so why not have some crazy thoughts about it?! yes, some of us sound pretty convinced that these 2 will be together but thats just our imagination. you may have read mine and adobes fan fiction what our view is of lara and sam being romantically entangled.

    this means we want to know more about her/them that many of us give it some thoughts what would happen next. in this case with whom lara will get romantically involved with.
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  5. #1980
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    Quote Originally Posted by adobeARTIST View Post
    I think why some people object to it so much (my own speculation I suppose) is they fear it will hijack the gameplay.
    I don't think so. That has got to be the least of people's worry.

    I can't imagine anyone would fear that we'll suddenly see Lara in a make-out session in the middle of a stealth mission

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  6. #1981
    hot coffee easter egg in TR10
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  7. #1982
    There was a similar question at ubiforums on whether we'd like to see a gay assassin. This is a similar question so i think the same answer would apply. :P

    Mostly I fear that if they make Lara gay it would come off as pandering or ticking off the monority protag checklist. And if that happens it would undo the whole realistic Lara they are trying to portray. Infact it would make it worse and seem like returning to the teenage fantasy Lara she was earlier. I'm not saying lesbian Lara can't be realistic; far from it. What I'm saying is I'd not like the effort to feel unrealistic and come off as pandering *cough* Mass Effect 3*cough*

    Isaac Sirko in Dexter is a great example of a well-made gay character. Bill in TLoU (i think his name was), I'm told is a well-made character as well though I personally haven't played the game. They feel completely natural to the story and not shoehorned in. Now if they have the caliber to portray these sorts of gay characters, then I'm all for it.

    But at the end of the day I feel the entire effort to give Lara a sexuality is unneeded. Emotional attachments can be shown through nonromantic relationships equally well. Hell during the game I felt Lara's need to save Sam and never once did it cross the mind that she may be more than just friends with Lara. In future games I'd prefer to see these two to be strong friends, but just friends. I think it would lead to the development of a more complex relationship than if these two are romantically involved. Though my first preference would be to show Lara deeply scarred by the experiences of the island to such an extent that she is now unable to connect to her former friends and acquaintances. :P Just my two cents.

  8. #1983

    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by pirate1802 View Post
    There was a similar question at ubiforums on whether we'd like to see a gay assassin. This is a similar question so i think the same answer would apply. :P

    Mostly I fear that if they make Lara gay it would come off as pandering or ticking off the monority protag checklist. And if that happens it would undo the whole realistic Lara they are trying to portray. Infact it would make it worse and seem like returning to the teenage fantasy Lara she was earlier. I'm not saying lesbian Lara can't be realistic; far from it. What I'm saying is I'd not like the effort to feel unrealistic and come off as pandering *cough* Mass Effect 3*cough*

    Isaac Sirko in Dexter is a great example of a well-made gay character. Bill in TLoU (i think his name was), I'm told is a well-made character as well though I personally haven't played the game. They feel completely natural to the story and not shoehorned in. Now if they have the caliber to portray these sorts of gay characters, then I'm all for it.

    But at the end of the day I feel the entire effort to give Lara a sexuality is unneeded. Emotional attachments can be shown through nonromantic relationships equally well. Hell during the game I felt Lara's need to save Sam and never once did it cross the mind that she may be more than just friends with Lara. In future games I'd prefer to see these two to be strong friends, but just friends. I think it would lead to the development of a more complex relationship than if these two are romantically involved. Though my first preference would be to show Lara deeply scarred by the experiences of the island to such an extent that she is now unable to connect to her former friends and acquaintances. :P Just my two cents.
    First... BILL WAS GAY??? I'm always the last to pick up on these things haha.

    Second, I agree with your first preference. In the next game, or at least the comics, I'd like to see Lara build some walls between her and her friends. I really want to explore Lara's psych in a game. See some post-traumatic stress.

  9. #1984
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valenka View Post
    I just don't find it necessary.
    I don't find it necessary, but it's one of those urges you get to see two characters get together. Like with Nick and Jess in New Girl, god I love them both

    Quote Originally Posted by adobeARTIST View Post
    I think why some people object to it so much (my own speculation I suppose) is they fear it will hijack the gameplay. But when I advocate it, it's about fleshing out the character work for Lara as part of her personality. And like all personality and characterization detailing (such as her courage, strength, resolve, determination, class, wit, sophistication, etc...), these are background details, while the player still engages in the primary action gameplay.

    The key here as you illustrate, is to incorporate a romance (or even just any interaction of attraction) in the same way all other traits are showcased with Lara, so that it isn't made center stage, but just a very normal aspect to her character background, no different than any other traits which gives us that insight to what's beneath the surface.

    Of course we play the game for the exploration, platforming, puzzle solving, and overall the adventure. But like with lots of other action games, they're centered around a character. And with the medium getting better and better at crafting stories around these avatars through which we explore the world, we also want more out of that characterization. That has little to do with the gameplay, but really more to give us a context of the character and their involvement in that adventure.

    This is why we become attached, what gives us a reason to care if they succeed or fail in the missions and objectives, and from which our love and fandom is nurtured. So to that I say, give us even more of the character, that we will truly identify with who Lara is and why we want to join her in those explorations. This is more than just how strong she is or how much ass she kicks, but who she is in between the action... who Lara is as a person. So the social and emotional aspects should not be overlooked.
    I agree with everything you just said :L

    Does anyone on here watch Under The Dome? I'd like to use the lesbian couple on that show as a good example of how I would like to see Lara and Sam interact with each other
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  10. #1985
    Lara should be a Mono gendered creature capable of mating with any gender like Asari's in Mass Effect.
    Next game she has a romance with Sam then in the one after she has a fling with Kurtis.

    Also the Lara Croft impregnates humans whatever their gender and they give birth to puppies or kittens depending on the Lara Crofts partner.

    Sam turns back up in TR 16 pregnant with Siamese kittens demanding child support
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  11. #1986
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    Quote Originally Posted by pomeranianpuppy View Post
    Lara should be a Mono gendered creature capable of mating with any gender like Asari's in Mass Effect.
    Next game she has a romance with Sam then in the one after she has a fling with Kurtis.

    Also the Lara Croft impregnates humans whatever their gender and they give birth to puppies or kittens depending on the Lara Crofts partner.

    Sam turns back up in TR 16 pregnant with Siamese kittens demanding child support
    What mushrooms have you been eating?

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  12. #1987
    The kind that grows on Yamatai?

  13. #1988
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    Quote Originally Posted by pomeranianpuppy View Post
    Lara should be a Mono gendered creature capable of mating with any gender like Asari's in Mass Effect.
    Next game she has a romance with Sam then in the one after she has a fling with Kurtis.

    Also the Lara Croft impregnates humans whatever their gender and they give birth to puppies or kittens depending on the Lara Crofts partner.

    Sam turns back up in TR 16 pregnant with Siamese kittens demanding child support
    LOL LOL What kind of things have you been doing.

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  14. #1989
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    Quote Originally Posted by pomeranianpuppy View Post
    Lara should be a Mono gendered creature capable of mating with any gender like Asari's in Mass Effect.
    Next game she has a romance with Sam then in the one after she has a fling with Kurtis.

    Also the Lara Croft impregnates humans whatever their gender and they give birth to puppies or kittens depending on the Lara Crofts partner.

    Sam turns back up in TR 16 pregnant with Siamese kittens demanding child support
    Did you go crazy or are you just sick of LaraxSam stuff?

  15. #1990
    Quote Originally Posted by pomeranianpuppy View Post
    Lara should be a Mono gendered creature capable of mating with any gender like Asari's in Mass Effect.
    Next game she has a romance with Sam then in the one after she has a fling with Kurtis.

    Also the Lara Croft impregnates humans whatever their gender and they give birth to puppies or kittens depending on the Lara Crofts partner.

    Sam turns back up in TR 16 pregnant with Siamese kittens demanding child support
    And then Sam becomes a kitten herself! And child support is filled with puppies.

  16. #1991
    Quote Originally Posted by I_Jedi View Post
    And then Sam becomes a kitten herself! And child support is filled with puppies.
    I'm worried about the puppies... Lara... please... think of the baby doggies

  17. #1992
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivana KC View Post
    Did you go crazy or are you just sick of LaraxSam stuff?
    Maybe a bit of both

    Anyone who's in support of it should send CD an email info@crystald.com and include in the title #anythingwithapulse
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  18. #1993
    ^And here I thought you like Lara/Sam....



  19. #1994
    Quote Originally Posted by Wild View Post
    ^And here I thought you like Lara/Sam....


    I do , it's just the discussion of if they should be together goes round in circles and if Lara was mono gendered then people would view her love interests for the people they are and not see them for whats between their legs
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  20. #1995
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    Quote Originally Posted by pomeranianpuppy View Post
    I do , it's just the discussion of if they should be together goes round in circles and if Lara was mono gendered then people would view her love interests for the people they are and not see them for whats between their legs
    Having monitored and participated in this thread for most of its course, I think I can say with a good degree of certainty that the discussions have been more about love / emotions than it has been about sex.

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  21. #1996
    Quote Originally Posted by pomeranianpuppy View Post
    I do , it's just the discussion of if they should be together goes round in circles and if Lara was mono gendered then people would view her love interests for the people they are and not see them for whats between their legs
    Some people think Lara is a terrible person, so removing the distraction could be unwise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Driber View Post
    Having monitored and participated in this thread for most of its course, I think I can say with a good degree of certainty that the discussions have been more about love / emotions than it has been about sex.
    I thought it was of Lara's orientation.

  22. #1997
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    Quote Originally Posted by Driber View Post
    Having monitored and participated in this thread for most of its course, I think I can say with a good degree of certainty that the discussions have been more about love / emotions than it has been about sex.
    thats a good thing. i also cant remember reading threads thats about sex only. proofs how mature we are here

    but well, my question regarding if lara will have a relationship has been answered:


    Noah Hughes: I can answer this question in a general sense, as pertains to all friendships and relationships in Lara’s life.

    Lara’s pursuit and journey to becoming a Tomb Raider is almost an involuntary obsession. It starts as her being an archeology geek, but it becomes an all-consuming passion that ultimately she’s willing to risk her life for. And so part of Lara’s journey is to struggle with balancing what it means to be a young person growing up, and what it means to have the responsibilities of a Tomb Raider. Lara has to prioritize. She doesn’t have room for a significant other in her life – she doesn’t have enough left over after archeology and what becomes Tomb Raiding. But that doesn’t mean she doesn’t have feelings.

    So what we play with a little bit during her journey in these early years is the tension between the life she might have lead if she didn’t get sucked down this rabbit hole. We’re delivering on not the normal life, but the Tomb Raider life. She is so dedicated and obsessed and focused that she doesn’t have room for these other things.[From official forum Q&A session #14 (August 2013)]
    http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthr...09#post1945409

    a bit sad actually. i hope at least that her friendship towards sam and the others still will be intact. especially what she had to go through to safe sam.
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  23. #1998
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    Quote Originally Posted by I_Jedi View Post
    I thought it was of Lara's orientation.
    That's one of the subjects in this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Metalrocks View Post
    i also cant remember reading [posts] thats about sex only.
    Then you haven't been paying close enough attention

    Quote Originally Posted by Metalrocks View Post
    proofs how mature we are here
    Mature? Us? Don't make me laugh


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  24. #1999
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metalrocks View Post
    but well, my question regarding if lara will have a relationship has been answered:

    http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthr...09#post1945409

    a bit sad actually. i hope at least that her friendship towards sam and the others still will be intact. especially what she had to go through to safe sam.
    I actually hope her friendship with Sam is one of the things that starts to deteriorate... specially because it's the one relationship we've actually seen! So in order to truly portray how Lara's obsession is isolating her, we should see her growing distant from Sam.
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  25. #2000
    Quote Originally Posted by dark7angel View Post
    I actually hope her friendship with Sam is one of the things that starts to deteriorate... specially because it's the one relationship we've actually seen! So in order to truly portray how Lara's obsession is isolating her, we should see her growing distant from Sam.
    Yes exactly! Not that I have anything against Sam, despite her being a stereotype I liked her.

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