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Thread: Lara & Sam! | please read OP before posting!

  1. #1901
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wild View Post
    Adobe has already answered at why Lara and Sam would make a good couple if ever happened in the game. But you've seen my post, i agree with you about not having any relationship at all. You may see Lara and Sam as friends but others don't and it's not about what happened in the game but what would happen after the game. It's purely fantasy.


    (I personally don't want a rs for Lara but I definitely want her to hit on women)

    And just because Sam said "cute guys" is not even strong evidence and many people would agree with me. If you think that everything is black and white, especially when it comes to sexuality... then you're wrong.



    Ugh, i don't even know why you think i'm pushing someone. You accuse me of pushing while i'm trying to discuss as others do in this forum. And please, stop saying the word agenda. I don't even know why you're saying all of this.

    I've always discussed with people at other forums and nobody accused me of something as you, oddly, do.
    It's maybe you think i'm pushing "my agenda" at someone when in fact isn't what i'm doing at all?


    I don't even know how you want me to talk here, omg.
    And I disagree with Adobe's reasoning. I see Lara as a woman who is confident in her abilities and wouldn't want anyone holding her back and to me Sam whether they're just friends or a couple would seriously hold Lara back on her adventures and you the player would probably have to be constantly saving her as she just seems like the person who is always finding trouble.

    As for the "cute guys" comment well the tone in which she said it certainly seemed to be one of excitement which typically indicates some kind of interest.Sexuality is pretty black and white it may not be totally black and white but just going off of statistics the vast majority of people in the world are heterosexual with smaller percentages of people being bisexual or homosexual. Anyway most of us probably don't play video games for romance we play them so we can kick ass, shoot people in the face, leap off of tall buildings into a cart of hay without so much as suffering a scratch, to explore places that we may never get the chance to see in real life.

  2. #1902
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wild View Post
    And just because Sam said "cute guys" is not even strong evidence and many people would agree with me.
    I think you're confusing "evidence" with "proof".

    Sam saying "cute guys" is no proof that Lara is into guys, but it certainly is strong evidence that she is.

    And adding "many people would agree with me" doesn't make your argument stronger. There many people disagreeing with you, too.


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  3. #1903
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murphdawg1 View Post

    Except again Sam comes off as weak and needy while Lara is confident and strong. If you can't see it already Sam has damsel in distress written all over her. Also plenty of people in the world are single but it doesn't mean they're lacking in character so I fail to see how keeping Lara's preferences ambiguous would hinder her character development. Also why force something onto a player if they don't want it? This isn't an RPG where you get to choose and I certainly didn't get Tomb Raider to see Lara get romantically involved with anyone.
    There's no disputing that Sam is very much the damsel in distress in this game. But who's to say that she stays that way? Especially because of what she went through that would push her to grow. Probably not to the extent Lara did, not all people possess the same capability, but at the very least being more conscious to address her vulnerability and not allow it to be exploited.

    In fact her relationship to Lara, be that romantic or strong friendship, can be its own impetus to compel Sam to grow stronger and more capable (in her own right). The motivation to not be a burden to the person most important to her, perhaps just not wanting to feel inadequate, is a very real drive.

    But this of course is all hypothetical. Considering how underdeveloped Sam and the other supporting cast is (as most here agree) leaves that much more room of a canvas to fill.

    As for the RPG argument... I just don't see what that has to do with anything related her at all. I play a lot of RPGs and it's great when you can develop your character the way you want to, not just in skills and talents but in personality and how you interact with the game world.

    But that's the thing about RPGs, they're your character (when the RPG is done right) and Tomb Raider, even with the skill upgrading system, is NOT an RPG. It's a scripted character game, just like Uncharted, Assassin's Creed, max Payne.. among others.

    And in all those cases, the character development is determined by the game writers, not the player. Are those game experiences diminished by your inability to steer Drake away from being attracted to Elena or Chloe?

    These are story games and like a TV show or movie, the characters are what they are. And they sure do seem more real because they demonstrate personality traits and personal social motives.

    Quote Originally Posted by Metalrocks View Post

    @adobe
    you mean you send your story to CD to that email address?
    Yep, that's what I mean. But like I said, the primary content of my message was in support of a Lara/Sam relationship. I then added in a "while I'm at it, something I'd like to share..." and I was clear, I was NOT asking them to use my material IF they opted to pursue the relationship.

    My main goal was in support of the relationship, as part of the petition. My fan fic contribution, you can think of as extra DLC
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  4. #1904
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    Quote Originally Posted by adobeARTIST View Post
    There's no disputing that Sam is very much the damsel in distress in this game. But who's to say that she stays that way? Especially because of what she went through that would push her to grow. Probably not to the extent Lara did, not all people possess the same capability, but at the very least being more conscious to address her vulnerability and not allow it to be exploited.

    In fact her relationship to Lara, be that romantic or strong friendship, can be its own impetus to compel Sam to grow stronger and more capable (in her own right). The motivation to not be a burden to the person most important to her, perhaps just not wanting to feel inadequate, is a very real drive.

    But this of course is all hypothetical. Considering how underdeveloped Sam and the other supporting cast is (as most here agree) leaves that much more room of a canvas to fill.

    As for the RPG argument... I just don't see what that has to do with anything related her at all. I play a lot of RPGs and it's great when you can develop your character the way you want to, not just in skills and talents but in personality and how you interact with the game world.

    But that's the thing about RPGs, they're your character (when the RPG is done right) and Tomb Raider, even with the skill upgrading system, is NOT an RPG. It's a scripted character game, just like Uncharted, Assassin's Creed, max Payne.. among others.

    And in all those cases, the character development is determined by the game writers, not the player. Are those game experiences diminished by your inability to steer Drake away from being attracted to Elena or Chloe?
    These are story games and like a TV show or movie, the characters are what they are. And they sure do seem more real because they demonstrate personality traits and personal social motives.



    Yep, that's what I mean. But like I said, the primary content of my message was in support of a Lara/Sam relationship. I then added in a "while I'm at it, something I'd like to share..." and I was clear, I was NOT asking them to use my material IF they opted to pursue the relationship.

    My main goal was in support of the relationship, as part of the petition. My fan fic contribution, you can think of as extra DLC
    I've never played Uncharted and Connor certainly did not have a love interest in AC III. His goals were freedom and protecting his people. Like i've said before Lara involved with anyone just wouldn't seem right and it might keep me from buying that game as I don't play video games for romance.

  5. #1905
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murphdawg1 View Post
    I've never played Uncharted and Connor certainly did not have a love interest in AC III. His goals were freedom and protecting his people. Like i've said before Lara involved with anyone just wouldn't seem right and it might keep me from buying that game as I don't play video games for romance.
    You forgot about Ezio.

    And it's also an established fact that Connor had a significant relationship at some point in his life. Otherwise Desmond would never be born
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  6. #1906
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    Quote Originally Posted by adobeARTIST View Post
    You forgot about Ezio.

    And it's also an established fact that Connor had a significant relationship at some point in his life. Otherwise Desmond would never be born
    I never played an Assassin's Creed game before AC III. Also I am talking about in the game Connor never had a love interest.

  7. #1907
    Quote Originally Posted by Murphdawg1 View Post
    Except again Sam comes off as weak and needy while Lara is confident and strong. If you can't see it already Sam has damsel in distress written all over her. Also plenty of people in the world are single but it doesn't mean they're lacking in character so I fail to see how keeping Lara's preferences ambiguous would hinder her character development. Also why force something onto a player if they don't want it? This isn't an RPG where you get to choose and I certainly didn't get Tomb Raider to see Lara get romantically involved with anyone.
    Quote Originally Posted by Murphdawg1 View Post
    There's a big difference between just shipping and wanting it in future games. That is my problem as I don't want Lara involved with anyone in the games, if people want to use their imaginations and pair Lara with whomever they are more than free to do so and that's the great thing about keeping her preference not known. Honestly I didn't really like Sam in the game as I found her to be annoying and I certainly didn't see anything between her and Lara other than a strong friendship. I suppose I was doing a bit a deductive reasoning and came to the conclusion that: Lara is a bookworm, Sam is Lara's best friend and more of a party girl: Sam takes Lara out to the club and presumably other places where they do meet in Sam's words "cute guys" so therefore it is quite possible that Sam plays the role of matchmaker and tries to match Lara up with people(presumably guys).
    Quote Originally Posted by Murphdawg1 View Post
    And I disagree with Adobe's reasoning. I see Lara as a woman who is confident in her abilities and wouldn't want anyone holding her back and to me Sam whether they're just friends or a couple would seriously hold Lara back on her adventures and you the player would probably have to be constantly saving her as she just seems like the person who is always finding trouble.

    As for the "cute guys" comment well the tone in which she said it certainly seemed to be one of excitement which typically indicates some kind of interest.Sexuality is pretty black and white it may not be totally black and white but just going off of statistics the vast majority of people in the world are heterosexual with smaller percentages of people being bisexual or homosexual. Anyway most of us probably don't play video games for romance we play them so we can kick ass, shoot people in the face, leap off of tall buildings into a cart of hay without so much as suffering a scratch, to explore places that we may never get the chance to see in real life.
    These are my main concerns about LaraxSam, but perhaps my biggest concern is this:

    There's a big difference between just shipping and wanting it in future games.
    If unnecessary and arguably irrelevant content is added in future games, it would disrupt the flow and gameplay of the game. A good example of this are the Desmond stages in any AC game. Sure, it added value to the backstory and all, but everyone hated it because it was unnecessary and rather silly. Same thing here with TR.

    Plus, I'd rather have the developers spend more time on lacking aspects such as a good and consistent storytelling and cast, than spending time on an irrelevant romantic subplot that won't make sense to a lot of people in the audience.
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  8. #1908
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    Quote Originally Posted by adobeARTIST View Post


    Yep, that's what I mean. But like I said, the primary content of my message was in support of a Lara/Sam relationship. I then added in a "while I'm at it, something I'd like to share..." and I was clear, I was NOT asking them to use my material IF they opted to pursue the relationship.

    My main goal was in support of the relationship, as part of the petition. My fan fic contribution, you can think of as extra DLC

    lol, i see.
    makes sense. at least you are reasonable about it and not forceful
    maybe i send an email as well to support it. but i dont think i will send my story. unless it might help to a possible DLC as well

    well, i send an email that i support the relationship and i even send my story as well. maybe they might take bits of it or from your story in the next game
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  9. #1909
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metalrocks View Post

    lol, i see.
    makes sense. at least you are reasonable about it and not forceful
    maybe i send an email as well to support it. but i dont think i will send my story. unless it might help to a possible DLC as well

    well, i send an email that i support the relationship and i even send my story as well. maybe they might take bits of it or from your story in the next game
    You posted the details with that crystald email. You didn't already write to vote yes to the relationship?
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  10. #1910
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    Quote Originally Posted by adobeARTIST View Post
    You posted the details with that crystald email. You didn't already write to vote yes to the relationship?
    sorry, come again.
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  11. #1911
    Quote Originally Posted by Metalrocks View Post
    sorry, come again.
    That's what Sam said to Lara

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  12. #1912
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    Quote Originally Posted by pomeranianpuppy View Post
    That's what Sam said to Lara

    cheeky, are we
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  13. #1913
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metalrocks View Post
    sorry, come again.
    AA is surprised that the person who brought the petition to our attention hasn't emailed CD yet, himself.

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  14. #1914
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    Quote Originally Posted by Driber View Post
    AA is surprised that the person who brought the petition to our attention hasn't emailed CD yet, himself.
    Hit the nail on the head.

    And Pommy... don't you ever change
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  15. #1915
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    I wonder how much more life this thread even has? It's been debated almost ad nausem over

    A) Whether or not Lara should even have a love interest in future games

    B) What people think her sexual preference is

    Honestly though I don't think Crystal Dynamics will go there simply because it's Lara and it has always been like that. Plus Rhianna Pratchett herelf said that it's probably best to keep Lara's sexual preference ambiguous.

  16. #1916
    Don't think I ever chimed in on this thread. My personal opinion is that Lara have a male love interest in the future, but in a cool way. Her relationship with Chase Carver was my favorite part of the Tankoban comics, and I'd love to see that kind of relationship pursued in the games.

    In terms of Lara's orientation, I think it has always been ambiguous, but her interest always seemed to lean towards men. That's probably just a result of the marketing team and internal decisions to make Lara appeal to teenage boys (Core era). In the comics and the novels she was definitely interested in men, and I think - for consistency's sake - her orientation should remain the same in the reboot.

  17. #1917
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunter_Wolfe18 View Post
    Don't think I ever chimed in on this thread. My personal opinion is that Lara have a male love interest in the future, but in a cool way. Her relationship with Chase Carver was my favorite part of the Tankoban comics, and I'd love to see that kind of relationship pursued in the games.

    In terms of Lara's orientation, I think it has always been ambiguous, but her interest always seemed to lean towards men. That's probably just a result of the marketing team and internal decisions to make Lara appeal to teenage boys (Core era). In the comics and the novels she was definitely interested in men, and I think - for consistency's sake - her orientation should remain the same in the reboot.
    I tend to agree, that Lara would more likely get involved with a man. But still from a non-canon and speculative perspective, it's fun to explore the Lara/Sam relationship, if you don't take it too seriously

    Then again, I'd rather see Lara with a woman than perpetually alone, so if CD does pursue that, I'll get behind that, same as a male relationship.
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  18. #1918
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    Quote Originally Posted by adobeARTIST View Post
    I tend to agree, that Lara would more likely get involved with a man. But still from a non-canon and speculative perspective, it's fun to explore the Lara/Sam relationship, if you don't take it too seriously

    Then again, I'd rather see Lara with a woman than perpetually alone, so if CD does pursue that, I'll get behind that, same as a male relationship.
    Why though? She's a video game character and as Daftvirgin said it would be very much like the Desmond parts of Assassin's Creed and most people would hate it. I mean i've only played one Assassin's Creed game(AC III) and I hated the Desmond parts and as AngryJoe said in his review of that game "it's hard to get into a groove when you're constantly being pulled from the Matrix and put into a crappier game."

  19. #1919

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    Quote Originally Posted by adobeARTIST View Post
    I tend to agree, that Lara would more likely get involved with a man. But still from a non-canon and speculative perspective, it's fun to explore the Lara/Sam relationship, if you don't take it too seriously

    Then again, I'd rather see Lara with a woman than perpetually alone, so if CD does pursue that, I'll get behind that, same as a male relationship.
    OMG yes!! I'd rather Lara be a bigamist than end up alone!!! Everyone deserves to settle down with someone.

  20. #1920
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    Quote Originally Posted by Driber View Post
    AA is surprised that the person who brought the petition to our attention hasn't emailed CD yet, himself.

    i see. yes, it is weird, i have to admit it my self.
    first i wanted to, but i thought since CD them selfs look at the forum, i dint see a particular reason send an email.
    but after some thinking, i decided to do it anyway. no harm, right?
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  21. #1921
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    ^ *themselves

    Quote Originally Posted by Murphdawg1 View Post
    I wonder how much more life this thread even has? It's been debated almost ad nausem over

    A) Whether or not Lara should even have a love interest in future games

    B) What people think her sexual preference is
    lol, this discussion has been going on since the dawn of TR. We're now 16 years further and we're still discussing it. Don't expect the discussion to go extinct any time soon

    Quote Originally Posted by Murphdawg1 View Post
    Plus Rhianna Pratchett herelf said that it's probably best to keep Lara's sexual preference ambiguous.
    I don't see how Miss Pratchett's personal opinions have any big weight in this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hunter_Wolfe18 View Post
    OMG yes!! I'd rather Lara be a bigamist than end up alone!!! Everyone deserves to settle down with someone.
    Huh? How does being a bigamist have to do with anything?

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  22. #1922
    Quote Originally Posted by Hunter_Wolfe18 View Post
    Don't think I ever chimed in on this thread. My personal opinion is that Lara have a male love interest in the future, but in a cool way. Her relationship with Chase Carver was my favorite part of the Tankoban comics, and I'd love to see that kind of relationship pursued in the games.

    In terms of Lara's orientation, I think it has always been ambiguous, but her interest always seemed to lean towards men. That's probably just a result of the marketing team and internal decisions to make Lara appeal to teenage boys (Core era). In the comics and the novels she was definitely interested in men, and I think - for consistency's sake - her orientation should remain the same in the reboot.
    Yes, it was more the marketing than make her have relationships with women. Because these days were different, but not anymore. I don't think people will go with pitchforks if Lara happens to have a female relationship now.
    I personally don't consider comics canon and her preferences were always ambiguous. I'd rather Lara to be alone than end up with the 'usual' way, with a man. Since we have no idea about her sexual orientation, it would be rather lame if CD chooses the 'easy' way. Lara has been a symbol not only to straight women and men but to gay men, gay women and bi and I don't want Lara to be a typical, everyday girl. I want her to be different. I want her to like women as well. I want her to break the 'normal' things and be a free person.
    I'd prefer if it stayed ambiguous and or make her bi so everyone will be happy and they will somewhat relate to Lara and feel closer to her.



    In my mind i tend to see her ending up with a woman.

  23. #1923
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wild View Post
    Yes, it was more the marketing than make her have relationships with women. Because these days were different, but not anymore. I don't think people will go with pitchforks if Lara happens to have a female relationship now.
    I personally don't consider comics canon and her preferences were always ambiguous. I'd rather Lara to be alone than end up with the 'usual' way, with a man. Since we have no idea about her sexual orientation, it would be rather lame if CD chooses the 'easy' way. Lara has been a symbol not only to straight women and men but to gay men, gay women and bi and I don't want Lara to be a typical, everyday girl. I want her to be different. I want her to like women as well. I want her to break the 'normal' things and be a free person.
    I'd prefer if it stayed ambiguous and or make her bi so everyone will be happy and they will somewhat relate to Lara and feel closer to her.



    In my mind i tend to see her ending up with a woman.
    Couldn't disagree more.

    If you think a gay relationship for Lara wouldn't be controversial because "times are different now", think again. I rather have Lara remain unattached in the games, just like you, but if some sort of romantic relationship is going to happen, it better be with a guy. Lara's (implied) interest for 16 years has been men, not women, so virtually everyone knows her / assume her to be a straight woman, so to change that around just for the sake of being "unconventional" or "breaking barriers" would make the risk CD took with the reboot look like peanuts.

    Oh and Lara couldn't be a "typical, everyday girl", even if she tried

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  24. #1924
    Quote Originally Posted by Driber View Post
    Couldn't disagree more.

    If you think a gay relationship for Lara wouldn't be controversial because "times are different now", think again. I rather have Lara remain unattached in the games, just like you, but if some sort of romantic relationship is going to happen, it better be with a guy. Lara's (implied) interest for 16 years has been men, not women, so virtually everyone knows her / assume her to be a straight woman, so to change that around just for the sake of being "unconventional" or "breaking barriers" would make the risk CD took with the reboot look like peanuts.

    Oh and Lara couldn't be a "typical, everyday girl", even if she tried
    Well, couldn't disagree more either.

    And no, there are people who think she's gay or bi so her ''implied interest'' isn't enough. And nope, it's not wishful thinking, it's what it is. Because of her ambiguity, it's understandable for people to assume that she is anything else but straight.
    And her 'implied' interest in men, could not make her any less bisexual.


    And to my eyes, yes that would make her a typical, everyday girl. There are girls like Lara in movies and tvshows (not about her background but about her badassery).... and I want to relate to Lara. I want her to be different.


    Edit: fixed grammar.

  25. #1925
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    Quote Originally Posted by Driber View Post
    ^ *themselves I don't see how Miss Pratchett's personal opinions have any big weight in this.
    Well she was the writer for Tomb Raider and could be the writer for the sequel too who knows? So I think her opinion is kind of important.

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