Thread: Robin discussion thread.

Robin discussion thread.

  1. #26
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    Originally Posted by Drazar
    Thats what the character biographys are for. I have a friend whos only Batman knowledge comes from the Nolan movies. Did Poison Ivy, Bane and Killer Croc ruin his experience? No. He loved the character biographies and whatnot.
    Those flashback sqequences and/or cut-scenes are still up for grabs

  2. #27
    Originally Posted by BatDood
    To the casual gamers who've never read a Batman comic you could go ahead and ask them if they've ever heard of Nightwing. Chances are they'll say no. I have a lot of friends that will give you that answer. Ask them if they've heard of Batman though and you just know you'll get a resounding yes. (If they said no, then you could follow up by asking them if they've lived under a rock their entire lives) lol

    Now I know that most people have heard of Robin as well. If they haven't, then the same "rock domain" question could be asked. But with that said, these same people who don't read the comics have never known of his development. They will still see him as Batman's lovable little side kick (mostly due the the campy 1960's TV version). Decades of that impression are hard to overcome and I think that Rocksteady made a wise choice with his omission from the game. They took a chance that it would translate better to a much wider audience.

    Also, to include Robin (or more specifically Nightwing), would mean spending valuable time in an already too short story explaining to people how Robin has grown and justifying his presence, let alone explaining to them where the heck Nightwing came from.
    There are some good points here, the casual Batman fans are EVEN LESS receptive to Robin than the comic fans. To appeal to a larger demographic I think it would be wiser for Rocksteady to keep him out of the sequel.
    W.W.B.D. What Would Batman Do?

  3. #28
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    Originally Posted by Matches Malone
    There are some good points here, the casual Batman fans are EVEN LESS receptive to Robin than the comic fans. To appeal to a larger demographic I think it would be wiser for Rocksteady to keep him out of the sequel.
    Are you trying to claim adding more supporting characters will decrease the sales? Really?

  4. #29
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    The max you should add are the ones CLOSEST to Batman, and no other appearences from lesser known characters throughout the Universe.

    Known Characters (Antagonists) that are closest to Batman that could make an apearence
    Alfred
    Oracle
    Nightwing
    Robin (Tim Drake)

    Other character (Antagonists) that would make this a Batfamily Arkham Asylum
    Rest of the Dc Universe that wears tights.

  5. #30
    Originally Posted by Drazar
    Are you trying to claim adding more supporting characters will decrease the sales? Really?
    Not at all (where did I even say that?), add Alfred EVERYBODY loves Alfred. Respectfully, it seems you think most people don't like Robin bc they have a lack of understanding for the character I have read as many books as the next guy, some people just don't like him. Believe it or not some people just don't like Batman. Everybody finds something different about the Batman mythology that they like, I FIND THIS ENDLESSLY FASCINATING! I personally like the dark brooding, shut everyone out, stubbornly do everything myself, slightly crazy, endless ambition of one man. A line from Gotham Knight sums up perfectly why I think it doesn't make sense for Batman to have sidekicks.

    "I'm willing to put my life on the line to do what I have to, but it has to be mine no one else s."

    But like I said I obviously like something different about the lore than you do so it doesn't bother me that you like Robin. I just want to voice my opinion about not having him in the game with hopes that he won't "end up in the game".

    Just objectively analyze the character and say "ok I can understand why some people wouldn't like him." More flowers!
    W.W.B.D. What Would Batman Do?

  6. #31
    The reasons and motivations why Robin wouldn't be a good addition for the sequel have been exposed by various forum users already, Drazar, so you have no need to try everything to prove the opposite. You can see how many users agree that Robin is not needed for that videogame (and I'm also glad to see many users agree with the view of Batman as a lone, unique, and slightly lunatic, figure).

    Can supporting characters decrease sales, you ask? Yes. They can. If the make the game worse, they will actually decrease the sales. If Rocksteady added much more characters in B AA to appease the fans, would the game have become better? No, it would have become worse. Many reviewers praise the fact that the programmers wisely decided to limit the number of characters in B AA so to not make the game a confused mess of "let's cram as more fanservice as possible".
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  7. #32
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    Originally Posted by E.Nygma
    Can supporting characters decrease sales, you ask? Yes. They can. If the make the game worse, they will actually decrease the sales. If Rocksteady added much more characters in B AA to appease the fans, would the game have become better? No, it would have become worse. Many reviewers praise the fact that the programmers wisely decided to limit the number of characters in B AA so to not make the game a confused mess of "let's cram as more fanservice as possible".
    No not really there is a diffirence between cramming every single sidekick and just one side-kick. The reviewers praised the fact that Rocksteady limited the number of villains generally. Though if they don't cram and just add one supporting character or two it's not the end of the world. If Nightwing would be in the next game would you refuse to buy it for that purpose? I wouldn't. If anything the sales will increase since this might attract fans of Nightwing and/or Robin.

    Batman is viewed as a loner, but some man graphic novel have nightwing or robin and still manage to capture that atmosphere. A great example would be Batman Hush. The storyis great and it revolves around Batman, yet it still involves nightwing and robin as minor roles. That's what Rocksteady could do, and player will find it neat to find a cameo from these characters.

    What you are implying, is that Nightwing or Robin will have huge roles in the game, but I'm suggesting a cameo hear and there. The sales decreasing just because of a cameo here and there is just an absucre arguement.

  8. #33
    Originally Posted by door noob
    No not really there is a diffirence between cramming every single sidekick and just one side-kick. The reviewers praised the fact that Rocksteady limited the number of villains generally. Though if they don't cram and just add one supporting character or two it's not the end of the world. If Nightwing would be in the next game would you refuse to buy it for that purpose? I wouldn't. If anything the sales will increase since this might attract fans of Nightwing and/or Robin.

    Well, I would still buy the game if by miracle they would manage to fit Robin or Nightwing in a way that really suits the style of the previous videogame. But, if they don't succeed.... no, I would not buy the videogame.

    Batman is viewed as a loner, but some man graphic novel have nightwing or robin and still manage to capture that atmosphere. A great example would be Batman Hush. The storyis great and it revolves around Batman, yet it still involves nightwing and robin as minor roles. That's what Rocksteady could do, and player will find it neat to find a cameo from these characters.
    Ah, you see we have different views. I hated the Hush storyline. Horrible and childish plot which was merely a cheap excuse to cram as many characters as possible (even that superdog, come on!).... and even worse drawings since I never liked Jim Lee's typical "barbie and ken" style.

    My kind of Batman stories are much more like, for example, "Arkham Asylum: Living Hell" (except for the last volume which had a very confused and disappointing ending). You know, the pseudo-psychological dark and atmospheric style.

    (Disregard that the "King Tut" arc of Batman Confidential was among my favorite bat-comics ever. :P )


    What you are implying, is that Nightwing or Robin will have huge roles in the game, but I'm suggesting a cameo hear and there. The sales decreasing just because of a cameo here and there is just an absucre arguement.
    Oh, then I agree with you. I don't care about Robin or Nightwing, but I'm all for a cameo if this will please some fans. I may even come to terms with Robin/Nightwing's presence in challenge rooms. But, I would not appreciate for that character to have a big plot role, unless Rocksteady really manage to make him stylistically fit in.
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    "You can't be disgusted by spiderwebs! You're Batman!"

  9. #34
    to E. Nygma.

    jim lee's style is Barbie and ken!?

    what the hell are you looking for? pablos weeping women!?

    I made a promise on the grave of my parents to rid this city of the evil that took their lives.

  10. #35
    You always know that the Robin debate is going to be a heavy one. I saw this coming from a mile away.

    What I'm trying to figure out is why there is this insistence that Robin/Nightwing making some significant appearance? The people that are suggesting this are getting dangerously close to a "top-down, cram as many superheros in as we can on the same screen" mentality. Aren't there a hundred of those types of games out there already?

    C'mon guys. Can you not enjoy a BATMAN game being BATMAN?

    I'll say it again (for the fiftieth time)...let them get their own games. If Nightwing is so popular, shouldn't he rate getting his own game? Hmm...maybe he's not really that popular at all and this is more of a fanboy, wet-dream request.

  11. #36
    Originally Posted by DarkKnightDanny
    to E. Nygma.

    jim lee's style is Barbie and ken!?

    what the hell are you looking for? pablos weeping women!?


    Aha, no. XD Well, you know what I mean. His drawing style is like.... like he's drawing action figures. It will work fine in DC Universe Online. But personally I really don't like the drawings of his comics.

    An artist I like, for example, is Glen Orbik, now -he- is really good:







    Such wonderful images! Though somewhat evocative of the '60s era Batman.


    And Alex Ross is possibly even more awesome:







    ....But I digress, this was very offtopic. :P

    I think we said all what could have been said about Robin and his possible presence in the sequel? Even if an internet forum isn't always indicative of what the majority of buyers think, it appears most of those who partecipate in this thread agree about Robin/Nightwing not being fit for a big role in the videogame, but he could be a cameo.
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    "You can't be disgusted by spiderwebs! You're Batman!"

  12. #37
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    Originally Posted by E.Nygma
    The reasons and motivations why Robin wouldn't be a good addition for the sequel have been exposed by various forum users already, Drazar, so you have no need to try everything to prove the opposite. You can see how many users agree that Robin is not needed for that videogame (and I'm also glad to see many users agree with the view of Batman as a lone, unique, and slightly lunatic, figure).
    The thread here was created to stop the misconception people have for Robin pretty much. Especially when alot of people here sadly haven't read Paul Dini's Detective Comics, so they can find it harder to believe dark mature stories can be done with Batman's support cast. =/ Ah luckily we're getting that animated movie next year.
    Can supporting characters decrease sales, you ask? Yes. They can. If the make the game worse, they will actually decrease the sales. If Rocksteady added much more characters in B AA to appease the fans, would the game have become better? No, it would have become worse. Many reviewers praise the fact that the programmers wisely decided to limit the number of characters in B AA so to not make the game a confused mess of "let's cram as more fanservice as possible".
    I'm going to use Metal Gear Solid as an example here, especially the 4th. The game had a *huge* amount of supporting cast and they all worked perfectly for the story. Otacon, Drebin, Naomi, Mei Ling, Sunny, Campbell, Raiden, Rose.

    Now Gotham is a huge city, and not having to hear anything like communication or even references to Huntress, Alfred, Nightwing, Zatanna, Catwoman, Question, Robin, James Gordon, Renee Montoy and Bullock can be disappointing. You see i'm not asking for more playable characters in this thread. Nor am i asking for a co-op game in this thread. I'm asking for an legendary Batman game with the movie quality story telling that Metal Gear Solid can provide, and with +70 years of Batman history, it can easily be done with Batman aswell.

    I mean even BAA Had James and Oracle for pete's sake! I never saw anyone complain about Oracle helping out Batman. Nor when Lucious Fox and Alfred kept helping Batman in the Nolan movies!

    Originally Posted by BatDood
    C'mon guys. Can you not enjoy a BATMAN game being BATMAN?.
    But taking away Batman's support cast is like taking away Batman's villains. It's like Sherlock Holmes withouth Watson or James Bond withouth a lady. Gotta respect the source material, buddy!

    Originally Posted by BatDood
    I'll say it again (for the fiftieth time)...let them get their own games. If Nightwing is so popular, shouldn't he rate getting his own game? Hmm...maybe he's not really that popular at all and this is more of a fanboy, wet-dream request.
    Depends how you define popularity. DC making Dick Grayson into Batman has made the Batman comics far more better in sales and the stories are also much cooler! Ofcourse it's going to be a whole new jazz whenever Bruce becomes Batman, probably in 2011.

    Nightwing getting his own game would be totally cool, but it's like MGS' Raiden. You gotta start from soemwhere, know what i'm saying?

    I think we said all what could have been said about Robin and his possible presence in the sequel? Even if an internet forum isn't always indicative of what the majority of buyers think, it appears most of those who partecipate in this thread agree about Robin/Nightwing not being fit for a big role in the videogame, but he could be a cameo.
    I just don't like when people go and say "Robin will doom the sales!" Because people know Rocksteady made a great game and with Paul Freaking Dini who just wrote the most creepiest christmas story with child victims and Robin getting raged by it, how can you doubt these guys!

  13. #38
    Originally Posted by Drazar
    The thread here was created to stop the misconception people have for Robin pretty much. Especially when alot of people here sadly haven't read Paul Dini's Detective Comics, so they can find it harder to believe dark mature stories can be done with Batman's support cast. =/ Ah luckily we're getting that animated movie next year.

    How can someone misconception a Batman character? The first and most noticeable thing I had many difficulties adjusting my mentality to, when I become a bat-fan, was precisely the fact that there is not a definite version of a character. Robin, just like any other character from the series, is bound to change drastically depending on the writer behind it.

    When all versions of Robin that you've seen never ring any bell to you, then it means you really don't like the character concept, the basis idea that never changes no matter the many different intepretations. It appears to me you have difficulties accepting that some (many?) people don't like Robin. But I think you have to bear with it; no matter how you insist you can change someone's view. Understand this: people who don't like Robin aren't mis-conceptualizing him. They just don't like Robin.
    And hey, you just have to accept it. Some of my favorite writers/artists for the Batman comics have stated that they don't like the Riddler!


    I'm going to use Metal Gear Solid as an example here, especially the 4th. The game had a *huge* amount of supporting cast and they all worked perfectly for the story. Otacon, Drebin, Naomi, Mei Ling, Sunny, Campbell, Raiden, Rose.

    Metal Gear was very different, however, so any comparison is pointless.

    Now Gotham is a huge city, and not having to hear anything like communication or even references to Huntress, Alfred, Nightwing, Zatanna, Catwoman, Question, Robin, James Gordon, Renee Montoy and Bullock can be disappointing. You see i'm not asking for more playable characters in this thread. Nor am i asking for a co-op game in this thread. I'm asking for an legendary Batman game with the movie quality story telling that Metal Gear Solid can provide, and with +70 years of Batman history, it can easily be done with Batman aswell.

    I have this feeling you aren't trying to figure out what the next videogame that Rocksteady is making will be about. You are actually trying to figure out your very own Batman videogame.


    But taking away Batman's support cast is like taking away Batman's villains. It's like Sherlock Holmes withouth Watson or James Bond withouth a lady. Gotta respect the source material, buddy!

    I have already explained you how wrong this statement of yours is, so I am not going to repeat again. Otherwise, only Schumacher's movies respected the source materials. And a lot of BTAS episodes didn't respect the source materal, too?
    ...Hey, and a lot of fans don't respect the source material either, since they like the figure of Batman as a lone and solitary knight?

    Drazar, I always get the impression that instead of expressing your own view of the Batman universe, you pretend to define it for everyone. :P
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    "You can't be disgusted by spiderwebs! You're Batman!"

  14. #39
    Originally Posted by E.Nygma
    And Alex Ross is possibly even more awesome:







    ....But I digress, this was very offtopic. :P
    Off topic: Alex Ross ROCKS!

    On topic: we now return you to your regularly scheduled program. lol

  15. #40
    Originally Posted by Drazar
    I'm going to use Metal Gear Solid as an example here, especially the 4th. The game had a *huge* amount of supporting cast and they all worked perfectly for the story. Otacon, Drebin, Naomi, Mei Ling, Sunny, Campbell, Raiden, Rose.
    You can't really use Metal Gear Solid as an example for one simple reason: that game does not use iconic figures that people have come to know through decades of exposure throughout various mediums. All of those characters are video game creations and have limited exposure (ie: in the gaming world).

  16. #41
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    Originally Posted by E.Nygma
    How can someone misconception a Batman character? The first and most noticeable thing I had many difficulties adjusting my mentality to, when I become a bat-fan, was precisely the fact that there is not a definite version of a character. Robin, just like any other character from the series, is bound to change drastically depending on the writer behind it.
    Only if the guy doesn't respect continuety... Which reminds me of that comic book where Batman hated rock music. >____<

    When all versions of Robin that you've seen never ring any bell to you, then it means you really don't like the character concept, the basis idea that never changes no matter the many different intepretations. It appears to me you have difficulties accepting that some (many?) people don't like Robin. But I think you have to bear with it; no matter how you insist you can change someone's view. Understand this: people who don't like Robin aren't mis-conceptualizing him. They just don't like Robin.
    See the real problem i have with people not liking Robin, is that alot of them sadly end up being people who don't know a thing about the character! Now i can totally respect the opinions of people who have enough knowledge on the character. Sorry if i've made you think i'm just not accepting others point of views, but i just feel theres too much misconception and lack of knowledge on Robin. =*( Especially when people think Robin gets trapped all the time and needs Batman to save him. ;_;

    Again sorry if i made you think "blah blah i dont care for your opinions cuz you dont like him" guess it's the lack of better english words. =/
    And hey, you just have to accept it. Some of my favorite writers/artists for the Batman comics have stated that they don't like the Riddler!
    My favorite writer made Jason Todd into a total loser and i loved it.
    Metal Gear was very different, however, so any comparison is pointless.
    What about Assassin's Creed 2 then? Ezio had a wide support cast from Uncle Mario to his sister, the assassins and Leonardo Davinci!

    I have this feeling you aren't trying to figure out what the next videogame that Rocksteady is making will be about. You are actually trying to figure out your very own Batman videogame.
    To me BAA was a very comic book fan game and it was *made* by Batman comic fans, they just knew it was good to make it more accessible to wider audiance, and thus introducing more of Batman's wide characters (such as Black Mask, whos really unknown) and other characters can work perfectly, especially with Paul Dini as the writer.

    I have already explained you how wrong this statement of yours is, so I am not going to repeat again. Otherwise, only Schumacher's movies respected the source materials. And a lot of BTAS episodes didn't respect the source materal, too?
    And i already told you.

    Nolan Movies: Lucious Fox, Harvey Dent, Alfred Pennyworth (and Rachel Dawes made for the movies) we're all done truthfully and loyal incarnation of these characters. These are supporting characters!

    BTAS: I wouldn't complain about 1-4 episodes lacking other characters, but thruouth the seasons we see plenty of Alfred, James Gordon, Robin and then in New Batman Adventures we get Nightwing, New Robin, Batgirl and more spotlight on Renee Montoya and Bullock aswell. Loyal and Truthfull!

    Originally Posted by BatDood
    You can't really use Metal Gear Solid as an example for one simple reason: that game does not use iconic figures that people have come to know through decades of exposure throughout various mediums. All of those characters are video game creations and have limited exposure (ie: in the gaming world).
    I don't see why it would be much different truly. You market the characters of BAA2 just like they did with the villains. Get great voice actors like they did with BAA.

    The writer is Paul Dini so dialogue, story and with Gotham as setting... I just can't see how something like that could possible fail. =O

  17. #42
    Dinis dialogue was very repetitive and just terrible.

  18. #43
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    That's so true. ^ Joker was just wow, and Batman was like what the hell? I hope he does it better in the sequel.

  19. #44
    Originally Posted by thebatman226
    Dinis dialogue was very repetitive and just terrible.
    How was Dinis Dialogue terrible.
    Multi Color.

  20. #45
    Originally Posted by thebatman226
    Dinis dialogue was very repetitive and just terrible.
    i disagree.
    "All men have limits. They learn what those limits are and then they learn not to exceed them. I ignore mine.." - batman

  21. #46
    Originally Posted by Lunar
    How was Dinis story terrible.
    Dialogue, not story.

    Originally Posted by supermanslayer
    i disagree.
    You enjoyed the copious amounts of paper tearing/ripping/folding references and Batmans only response to everything being no?

  22. #47
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    Originally Posted by Lunar
    How was Dinis dialogue terrible.
    I fixed that for you.

    Anyways here are some examples.

    Batman - I eat punks like these for breakfast.
    Batman - There is always a way out, ALWAYS!!!
    Batman - That's what she thinks...
    Batman - He won't see me.

    It's just so crony and dull IMO.

  23. #48
    Originally Posted by thebatman226
    Dialogue, not story.



    You enjoyed the copious amounts of paper tearing/ripping/folding references and Batmans only response to everything being no?
    I did not experience any of that.
    Multi Color.

  24. #49
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    Originally Posted by thebatman226
    You enjoyed the copious amounts of paper tearing/ripping/folding references and Batmans only response to everything being no?
    I agree, Some of the dialogue was terrible, and the points you raised are so true and bugged me during my playthrough.

    I dont remember the exact line, but it was something to do with batman saying he eats punks for breakfast... horrendous.

    I think some people feel they have to like the writing just because its Dini...

  25. #50
    Originally Posted by door noob
    I fixed that for you.

    Anyways here are some examples.

    Batman - I eat punks like these for breakfast.
    Batman - There is always a way out, ALWAYS!!!
    Batman - That's what she thinks...
    Batman - He won't see me.

    It's just so crony and dull IMO.
    I thought he said story but yea I agree but hey dini is a guy eatin cheetos and reading comics im sure he dont have time to write good lines.
    Multi Color.

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