Thread: I really hope I'm not going to be shot for this but...

I really hope I'm not going to be shot for this but...

  1. #1

    I really hope I'm not going to be shot for this but...

    I'm new to this board and very excited about the prospect of a Thief 4 coming along to redeem the series after the Thief Deadly Shadows 'fiasco'. I've been playing Thief for about 7 years now I'd say, since I only discovered FMs within the last year, you can imagine how much replaying that was (albeit with much healthy hiatus time throughout).

    Anyway, to my point. I'm overwhelmed with the amount of suggestion threads on this board, and while it is great to give the fans an input I'd hate to see this series go down the road of so many others, where the creators take too much of the fans advice on board and completely destroy the thing.

    By all means if you've gotten such a negative response from the last release try to improve your new product based on feedback, but I for one don't want to create my own thief game, (there are programs that allow us to do that, and we have the means to collaborate if there are a few of us that wish to do so) I want to see what the EM developers can do themselves, they got it so right twice already, if there's any of that genius left over I really want to see that in Thief 4.

  2. #2
    Your last paragraph might have some value if, and if is the operative here, any of them were in the original team. Which none were, as far as the released information has revealed.

    Some of them are Thief fans, or players, but none had anything to do with the first series or with TDS. Of course, not having anything to do with TDS is a plus. One can only hope that the experience they had as individuals with the original series as players will lead them in the right direction.

  3. #3
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    Well, I'm certainly not going to shoot you for that!

    Also, what theBlackman said. No LGS/ISA people involved as far as we've been told. In fact, we don't even know if anybody at all from the series is involved.

  4. #4
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    Originally Posted by greenpaint
    Anyway, to my point. I'm overwhelmed with the amount of suggestion threads on this board, and while it is great to give the fans an input I'd hate to see this series go down the road of so many others, where the creators take too much of the fans advice on board and completely destroy the thing.
    Welcome to the forum...

    I see what you are saying, but in this case I would say that because of a number of developer unknowns, there is just cause for many to be concerned about the outcome of T4. Add to this a unique love for the game, that has inspired further creation and the careful distillation of every nuance of THIEF, and you have a grand resource of well thought out ideas for the devs to draw upon and to be inspired by. Such good spirit will only yield strength to the overall effort of creation, unless of course the foundation of the T4 team is weak and uninspired, or fraught with severe compromise from above, then...not even the good will of this forum shall save it from its fate.

  5. #5
    I'm overwhelmed with the amount of suggestion threads on this board, and while it is great to give the fans an input I'd hate to see this series go down the road of so many others, where the creators take too much of the fans advice on board and completely destroy the thing.
    I don't think anyone in the forum should worry about this. As far as I'm concerned it's not within anyone's power to discriminate over what suggestions can be taken on board by EM or not. We are not part of the project whose several different issues, related to the game as well as to the company, will, to different extent, influence the final outcome.

    In a sense, I take the forum as free space, managed by specific people who try to maintain a bit of order, of course, where suggestions can be made at 360 by any fun of the Thief series, according to the rules of the forum. If these suggestions will be read, analysed or never taken into account by EM T4 team, it's a speculation with no purpose because we'll never know for sure.

    I guess that the "litmus paper" will be the game itself when released. Then, by playing, we'll get a flavor of what EM did with all our advices.
    "The Essence of Balance is Detachment"
    Glyph07

  6. #6
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    Yeah, but you know we're trying to do push whatever preventative measures we can, since they set up these forums so far in advance and read them for reasons we can't be entirely sure about either.

  7. #7
    Originally Posted by jtr7
    Yeah, but you know we're trying to do push whatever preventative measures we can, since they set up these forums so far in advance and read them for reasons we can't be entirely sure about either.
    Absolutely!
    "The Essence of Balance is Detachment"
    Glyph07

  8. #8
    Originally Posted by greenpaint
    Anyway, to my point. I'm overwhelmed with the amount of suggestion threads on this board, and while it is great to give the fans an input I'd hate to see this series go down the road of so many others, where the creators take too much of the fans advice on board and completely destroy the thing.

    By all means if you've gotten such a negative response from the last release try to improve your new product based on feedback, but I for one don't want to create my own thief game, (there are programs that allow us to do that, and we have the means to collaborate if there are a few of us that wish to do so) I want to see what the EM developers can do themselves, they got it so right twice already, if there's any of that genius left over I really want to see that in Thief 4.
    Well, I won't shoot you. I agree with you. These guys are pros. I want to see what they can do. The Dark Project wasn't a masterpiece because the developers were catering to audience expectations. They were pushing the envelope.The game was great, and is great to this day, because it was different and stood out. My chief concern is that they respect the mythology of Thief. Other than that, I'm just excited to see what they're going to do this time around.

  9. #9
    Originally Posted by ClashWho
    [...] My chief concern is that they respect the mythology of Thief. Other than that, I'm just excited to see what they're going to do this time around.
    This it the hope of the vast majority of "US". The immersion, play and overall impact of the games must be maintained.

    And, as is evident from the number of posts, most newer thief players don't really appreciate the original games, and are more into "Eye candy", effects, and I fear, simplistic instant gratification.

    A goodly number of the posts seem to be "I want to KILL, KILL, KILL."

  10. #10
    Seems to be getting better recently though, despite a few hardcore consoletards, more people seem to be coming along who want a proper story driven game, rather than a button punching bag of BS.

  11. #11
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    Originally Posted by theBlackman

    ...as is evident from the number of posts, most newer thief players don't really appreciate the original games, and are more into "Eye candy", effects, and I fear, simplistic instant gratification.

    A goodly number of the posts seem to be "I want to KILL, KILL, KILL."
    Originally Posted by Namdrol
    Seems to be getting better recently though, despite a few hardcore consoletards, more people seem to be coming along who want a proper story driven game, rather than a button punching bag of BS.
    It does seem to be getting better...I believe this is partly due to the successful conversion of some by exposing them to the older games. This starts with the reasoning of the facts (to those who will listen) and then by turning them on to expanded concepts.

    This same process can also occur with music. As a musician, over the years I have turned many uninformed students and friends on to artists that are more about depth and art and less about superficiality and trend...some of them end up thanking me, as it opens up their mind to a whole new world of creative expression. This may have never happened unless someone like me was able turn them on to it.

    To put it simply...One may never know the beauty of a rose simply because it has been never seen.

    Even with that said, there are still way too many who wish for what most of us here despise.

  12. #12
    I think, if developers did read these forums for ideas/fan feedback there are so many conflicting ideas/views they would be more confused than before they visited.


    With most things in the arts/entertainment world there is a old skool vs new skool thing going on.


    Giving us a taster of Thief 4 would be good, although whos to say what market research they have done already.

  13. #13
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    Originally Posted by Tafferite
    I think, if developers did read these forums for ideas/fan feedback there are so many conflicting ideas/views they would be more confused than before they visited.
    The devs do read these forums (so we are told). Although some ideas may be split, the majority of them have been determined favorable or unfavorable by polling and reasoned arguments. Even if some disagree, the majority can still be seen.

    With most things in the arts/entertainment world there is a old skool vs new skool thing going on.
    Yes...but this argument misses the more important point of quality. Quality is timeless, as every creation reflects a measure of quality.

    Giving us a taster of Thief 4 would be good, although whos to say what market research they have done already.
    They have done their market research, and what the THIEF fanbase thinks is part of it.

  14. #14
    Originally Posted by greenpaint
    I'm overwhelmed with the amount of suggestion threads on this board, and while it is great to give the fans an input I'd hate to see this series go down the road of so many others, where the creators take too much of the fans advice on board and completely destroy the thing.
    I'm more worried about them disregarding most or all fan input and making a steaming pile of junk that cheerfully discards everything people like about the series.
    But I'm right.

  15. #15
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    ^
    Haha, I wouldn't worry too much; but I guess your name 'negative_len' means you can't help but be nervous about lots of things.
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  16. #16
    Not so much; but I am nervous about the future of this game!

    The name is a programming term, or at least a twist on one: "len" is a common contraction for length, an underscore a common variable name connector; with the name as a whole implying impossibility, or maybe hope for the impossible. Lots of that to do here.
    But I'm right.

  17. #17
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    I once considered using the name "sob" as it was a particularly useful instruction in PDP11 machine code but it was only ever seen in hand written code because it only worked over a short address range and compilers didn't optimise that well back then

    but it also has other meanings and I didn't feel like explaining it all the time

  18. #18
    Yeah, I can see the problem there. I never learned machine code or even assembly, though at one point I planned to.
    But I'm right.

  19. #19
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    it was a major part of my first year uni course, just checked the syllabus and it looks like it still is but they have switched to ARM processors instead of the PDP, I still have a fondness for the old PDP I could once read the octal code as quickly as the written instructions, happy days ... long gone now but I still get my hands dirty in the code when I can

    ok I'm a geek, always have been, always will be, I am proud of my geekhood

  20. #20
    /blackjacks greenpaint

    As theBlackman pointed out, there's every reason to be sceptical about the development of Thief 4. There isn't a single person who worked on Thief 1 & 2 working on this game (yet, perhaps they'll at least hire Stephen Russell). Of course that can go either way, especially considering TDS was such a disaster. That's no reason to not be sceptical though, and provide constructive criticism and suggestions as to what the (huge) fanbase is expecting of EM.