View Poll Results: To what extent do you want to see the Girl from TDS in T4?

Voters
65. You may not vote on this poll
  • The only playable character.

    2 3.08%
  • More or less playable alongside Garret.

    4 6.15%
  • Playable but not alongside Garret.

    4 6.15%
  • Part of the Story, but not much else.

    30 46.15%
  • Mentioned but not important.

    25 38.46%
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Thread: The Girl Yes No Other

The Girl Yes No Other

  1. #76
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    2,639
    Originally Posted by Hecateus
    The Myth of 'Selfishness' suggests lack of concern for others, or even open hostility. Reality of selfishness is that one often includes others in one's (often subconscious) definition of self. Doing good deeds for those you care about makes you happy. A soldier's life risking love of country is ultimately a selfish love as the soldier has defined himself as a member of that country; it is much the same for a parent their love for a child is relative to their connection to that child. They have defined themselves as a parent of a particular child.

    To be truly altruistic one may not be allowed to feel pleased with the result of action, nor anything at all. It is to be a mindless-zombie servant for faceless masters.

    Even punishing one's self for one's sins is selfish as it defines oneself as a sinner.

    Being anything is selfish.
    You are confusing the absolute *I AM* "self " that is confined within space/time, with the intended qualified and relative term of "selfishness".

    The absolute *I AM* "self " is bound to Natural Law and must act accordingly in order to maintain its' own existence. This is an inescapable operational necessity, and is a consequence of the "self " appearing in an entropic energy system. This does not negate the virtue of "benevolence" nor the vice of "selfishness" which is a personal choice of ones' freewill.

    How can one give without being able to exist to give to thee?...and with thy love, I shall grow stronger and prosper...so that I am able to exist and give thou even more.

  2. #77
    Don't kill anybody, u're a thief no a bloodthirsty mercenary and please, let hotty, curvy, slendy, gorgeous sexy lady thief out of the game!

    On a serious note, though, in relation to a woman character in the game: the strength Viktoria had as co-protagonist in TMA was based on her similarities with Garrett + that special "something" strange (and not hot) female characters possess:

    1) Garrett lives in shadows = Viktoria came gradually at the attention of the player from TDP
    2) Garrett is strong = Viktoria is pwerfull
    3) Garrett talks business = Viktoria is firmly moved by her own interests

    and although in TMA she flirted a bit with Garrett she did it in such a subtle and sarcastic way that Garrett softened a bit (that bit that didn't touch his own good of course) towards her.

    So...will the future of the Thief series sees a female protagonist? Hm...don't really think so, but in case it will happen, let's make sure that she stands out not because her being a woman, but thanks of her being a strong, self standing character.
    "The Essence of Balance is Detachment"
    Glyph07

  3. #78
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    7,632
    ...let's make sure that she stands out not because her being a woman, but thanks of her being a strong, self standing character.
    Excellent! Nothing gimmicky. No sex-sells marketing that demonstrates a lack of confidence in good character design and writing aside from appearances. No sex-sells marketing that demonstrates simplified, assertive, easy, typical, dumb, masculine, fantasy, overcompensating, at minimum, for a weak story or to boost sales for a game that should stand on it's own without such help. Thief shouldn't reach out to an undeserving audience, and the story and character should command respect and admiration without ever seeing the character.

  4. #79
    Girl or no girl, I thought > This < GamaSutra article was relevant to the last few posts.

    Basically every character should have a deep reason to exist in the game. Even the game itself needs to justify its gameness.

    I like to think there are plenty of excellent reasons for the girl to be important for Thief4, but if EM can't justify her existence with intent to win a >Peabody < award for the game, then please don't even mention her or any other character for that matter.

  5. #80
    Vae,
    I suggest reading some of the Ayn Rand philosophy books such as 'The Virtue of Selfishness', to understand what we mean. But she is a wordy *ahem* who got more psychotic as she aged...If you want quick easy overview (From when she was sane) read > Anthem < for free.

  6. #81
    I'm sorry but Ayn Rand's objectivism is an ideology not a philosophy and current work in FMRI imaging has provided empirical proof that it's nonsense.
    FMRI studies have shown that we act in sympathy with the whole world around us.
    This is not a topic for here though.

  7. #82
    IMO Objectivism is a philosophy. The Objectivist movement is an ideaology.

    I am not saying its perfect, best, or even better than anything out there; but it was an important development in the world of philosophy. As I said, I think she's nuts too.

  8. #83

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