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Thread: After years, played Deadly Shadows again and came to the conclusion: this game is ART

After years, played Deadly Shadows again and came to the conclusion: this game is ART

  1. #51
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    "Behind yooou..."

  2. #52
    Originally Posted by esme
    forget the cradle, this is scaring the bejeezus out of me
    QFE.

    I replayed TDS recently and came to the conclusion that what I initially thought was a decent game is actually a mediocre one at best. Not trying to dump on those who like it - if it got some of you into the franchise, it least it did that. It just hasn't aged very well. At all. It's got virtually no replay for me, whatsoever, whereas the first two have been on my HD for years, and I keep coming back to them when I get tired of the consistent decline of the gaming industry.

  3. #53
    Originally Posted by cofiking
    I absolutely agree with you..I even painted a scene from TDS. The taverns, the dynamic shadows, the lights, the atmosphere is just brilliant and more advanced from its predecessors.. I honestly didn't see so much flaws in TDS. There were some things that bothered me of course for example the movement of the character was a bit edgy but all in all a great game.. I passed it 10 times! I explored every corner of the game just because I enjoyed the atmosphere so much...To everyone that disagrees I recommend to you start the game again with an opened mind and see it as it actually is...every game has flaws but if I had such a strong thief like feeling through the game and so much enjoyment while exploring it I am sure you can too?
    You think we haven't tried playing TDS with an "open mind"?

    When you've been spoiled by The Dark Project and The Metal Age, it's simply impossible to play TDS and not be annoyed with every step you take. Some day, once you yourself "open your mind" and start playing the first two games, you'll most likely feel the same way about playing TDS afterwards. I'm not going to, for the hundredth time, minutely list all of the million things wrong and missing in TDS, but I can guarantee you regardless, that TDS isn't one tenth of the game TMA and TDP were.

    Of course, if you've only played TDS, I can hardly blame you for not knowing any better

  4. #54
    I can guarantee you regardless, that TDS isn't one tenth of the game TMA and TDP were.
    By what measure? I'd rate at about 8/10ths by subjective measurement of enjoyment to me personally. The game rating mags put it in the 8.Xs too. And yes I have played TDP, TMA, and TFMs.

  5. #55
    I just wanted to share the feeling if you can't see it then too bad for you.. by the way I never was thinking of the mistakes in the game i was just enjoying it. I accepted it as it is, and it really wasn't that hard because the atmosphere of the game was beautiful..I already said that I painted a scene from the game. What do you think made me do that?If you would like I'll post it for you here haha..

    beauty comes only when the mind is silent because the mind cannot see beauty. It is a dimension beyond mind and happens usually in a quite state of mind. so, more immersing less thinking is my advice to all..cheers

  6. #56
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    It appears that "too bad for you" applies to everyone for different reasons on both side and in the middle. Scenery vs. the disappointment in a let-down of a Thief game are very different concepts and should not ever be compared.

  7. #57
    Originally Posted by Hecateus
    By what measure? I'd rate at about 8/10ths by subjective measurement of enjoyment to me personally. The game rating mags put it in the 8.Xs too. And yes I have played TDP, TMA, and TFMs.
    I've played them all, too. I bought The Dark Project when it was new. The cover intrigued me. I fell in love with it and bought The Metal Age almost the day it was released. I got Deadly Shadows on Xbox a few months after its release. It's a very different game, but I still like it. It's not just the Cradle level that it has going for it. The Museum is another of my favorite levels. The widow's mansion is also excellent. Plus the clock tower. These are all excellent levels. I understand those who say Deadly Shadows is too far removed from what they love about Thief, however. I do play Dark Project and Metal Age more often, but I also enjoy revisiting Deadly Shadows. I guess I just dwell more on the things they got right instead of the things they got wrong.

  8. #58
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    Yes. And you do admit the difference is not on the side of much better, which is all I need to be comfortable with the opinions expressed.

  9. #59
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    try turning the light on in the dining room and keep an eye on the dining table

    another thing I noticed with the attention to detail, most of the windows are opaque but if you turn the interior light on then the exterior view of the window illuminates too, it's a little thing I know but I find that sort of detail impressive as it doesn't happen if the designer doesn't put it in, unlike with ordinary windows where the light just shines through

  10. #60
    Originally Posted by DarknessFalls
    Thanks for posting. I'm making my way through it and it's pretty interesting. I personally like the 'art' in this T2 fan mission much better than TDS' art Cool use of colors; beautiful paintings; etc. The intro animation worried me -- thinking I'd be playing a Little Big Planet version of Thief or something -- but I was pleasantly surprised. The level art is fantastic. Wish I could interact with more things, but it is what it is. Am curious to see what the mission has in store for me...
    > Here < is the YouTube version of the intro. awesome.

    But I have a Mac and it's not set to play Thief (sadly) It would be cool some someone could post YouTube videos of the game playofthis FM.

  11. #61
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    the author has requested that no screenshots be posted for a while so people who haven't played it yet don't get the full effect of seeing it live the first time round

    I'm guessing this applies to youtube too

    --EDIT--

    apparently there are links to images that have been permitted, so have a look in the review here http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthrea...32#post1929232 but I strongly urge that those who can play the mission, play it rather than look at the screen shots

  12. #62
    Antigonish

    by Hughes Mearns

    Yesterday, upon the stair,
    I met a man who wasn’t there
    He wasn’t there again today
    I wish, I wish he’d go away...

    When I came home last night at three
    The man was waiting there for me
    But when I looked around the hall
    I couldn’t see him there at all!
    Go away, go away, don’t you come back any more!
    Go away, go away, and please don’t slam the door... (slam!)

    Last night I saw upon the stair
    A little man who wasn’t there
    He wasn’t there again today
    Oh, how I wish he’d go away

  13. #63
    Originally Posted by esme
    apparently there are links to images that have been permitted, so have a look in the review here http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthrea...32#post1929232 but I strongly urge that those who can play the mission, play it rather than look at the screen shots
    OH SHI......hmm how much for a suitable PC... /me counts pennies.

  14. #64
    I played Deadly Shadows first, and even if I could tell that it wasn't as good as it could have looked, I loved the way they used lighting in it. The sparkly windows were one of my favorite things, even if if could easily be claimed as being overused, since practically every window had it (which was an issue with the 360 compatibility, seeing as all light sources were seen through walls) but I thought that gave everything a certain mood. It was definitely different than the first two games, but that's alright.
    I could agree that there was a lot of blue. A lot of colors that could have been exploded into more colors, instead of all shadows being sort of the same shade. That, they could have improved on. But where the first two games lacked the simple ability to have the less blocky level design, they accomplished the same, if not better things than the third installment did.
    Calls The Serpents To The Heels Of My Foes! Calls The Ravens To Pecks Their Eyes!
    Calls The Jackals, Carry Thems Away. Their Children To Gnaw Bones In The Night!

  15. #65
    Originally Posted by jtr7
    Yes. And you do admit the difference is not on the side of much better, which is all I need to be comfortable with the opinions expressed.
    No, Deadly Shadows is not better than the Dark Project and the Metal Age. It's an inferior game. It does look beautiful, though, and I find it enjoyable. The lock picking is an improvement. I also love the compass feature. The compass is always right there with the light gem. That helps a lot.

    I was just playing Deadly Shadows today because I wanted to see what was meant by the blackjacking complaint - the idea that the player is not in control of the blackjack. I don't understand this complaint. The only difference I can see is that you're given a visual cue when you're in range. Garrett's hand draws back for the strike. But he still only swings when commanded.

    Have to admit, I don't mind the loot glint. It's very subtle and I like not having to pick up worthless objects to see if they're loot or not. I hate alerting a guard because I've noisily set down a worthless dish. Oh, another improvement of Deadly Shadows is that the doors don't automatically open when you unlock them. I hated that in Dark Project and Metal Age. Little things, sure, but Deadly Shadows does have some improvements. They may not make up for what was lost, but hopefully Thief IV will be the best of both worlds.

  16. #66
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    Yes. Improvements. We just need there to be no setbacks, dumbing down, watering down, or replacement of fundamentals with flash. The player is not in complete control of the blackjack. Taking any control from the player that was there in the older titles is backwards.

    Doors not automatically opening from being unlocked is an improvement. Unlocking the doors was not, but was, but it's mixed. It would've been better without body-awareness forcing the devs to band-aid fix the terrain-collision problems with the marionette by putting the locks in the middle of the door, auto-aligning the body with the lock, or ladders, etc.

    A lot of people don't mind the loot glint because it does the work for the player. Just stand in a room and wait for the glint to hail you, rather than the player paying attention and learning to have an appraising eye--a realism people DON'T want. Regardless, the new game should have improved dropping of junk items, which includes things like discarded weapons and small crates or the like.

  17. #67
    Originally Posted by jtr7
    A lot of people don't mind the loot glint because it does the work for the player. Just stand in a room and wait for the glint to hail you, rather than the player paying attention and learning to have an appraising eye--a realism people DON'T want.
    Hmm, when you put it that way, having to develop an appraising eye, without the visual cue of loot glint, is an attractive idea. That is how TDP and TMA were, and I liked recognizing what was a valuable dish and what was not on my own. It wasn't universal, however. Sometimes what looked like a worthless dish turned out to be valuable, and other times dishes that looked like they were valuable turned out to be worthless. I suppose that wouldn't be much of a problem, either, if Garrett could simply manage to put things down without making a racket!

  18. #68
    My notion of 'improving' Loot Glint as a feature is to have it lighting/distance dependent and time spent standing-still staring at a scene. Increasing difficulty lowers the effective range and increases time and lighting needed. It should also be turn offable as part of the Expert Setting.

    If EM gets in it's collective head to RPGify Thief, then an Appraisal skill might be appropriate too. (I am not looking forward to RPG features though)

    Detailed item descriptions would be a nice boost.

  19. #69
    Originally Posted by Hecateus
    My notion of 'improving' Loot Glint as a feature is to have it lighting/distance dependent and time spent standing-still staring at a scene. Increasing difficulty lowers the effective range and increases time and lighting needed. It should also be turn offable as part of the Expert Setting.
    I love these ideas.

    Originally Posted by Hecateus
    If EM gets in it's collective head to RPGify Thief, then an Appraisal skill might be appropriate too. (I am not looking forward to RPG features though)
    I'm not a fan of that idea, either. Garrett is THE Master Thief. His skills should be maxed out from the beginning. At least, his thieving skills should be. I suppose there's plenty of room for improvement as a swordsman. But he's not supposed to be a master swordsman, so I'd rather RPG elements - like leveling up abilities - remain outside the realm of Thief.

  20. #70
    The RPG stuff worked for Deus Ex and System Shock, but Thief has a more unique personal feel to it which would be lost with such. If there are De Facto RPG elements, then they need to be much less abstract, and built into the natural order of the milieu, like new shoes, a lens for the Eye, ;itt;e bow upgrades.

    But even then I think these should be avoided as they cheapen the skills developed by the player.

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