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Thread: What features could Thi4f borrow from other games?

What features could Thi4f borrow from other games?

  1. #51
    Originally Posted by oO_ShadowFox_Oo
    @jtr7: With all of these comments it really just sounds like you want a re-hash of Thief 2 with updates graphics, bigger more detailed levels and a smoother engine.
    What's wrong with that, all sequels should try to capture what was great about their predecessors and if possible expand on it. T1/T2 were great achievements, if they weren't we wouldn't be here today. TDS was pretty mediocre overall and contributed to the fall of the designers and almost the Thief franchise. Re-hashing T2 is a great start for T4 and expanding on it as well as using the few decent elements of TDS will surely be good for reviving Thief.

  2. #52
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    Originally Posted by oO_ShadowFox_Oo
    Well said!

    @jtr7: With all of these comments it really just sounds like you want a re-hash of Thief 2 with updates graphics, bigger more detailed levels and a smoother engine.
    Are you trolling? Are you frikkin' serious?


    You're perception of what's being said is extremely skewed. It's fallacious and libelous. Restoration of what was missing is a first step. Improving the core menchanics is the second step. Adding things that we've never seen in any game, but are a natural extension of the established Thief universe comes next. That's all. I can't help you with you reading comprehension problem and lack of imagination to explore what we've suggested as new for Thief that isn't borrowed from a hundred other games, or gimmicky. I'll repeat myself, and you'll come back with this BS like I never answered you guys. The problem is on your end for not learning and applying what you've learned, observing and seeing things more clearly.

  3. #53
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    Originally Posted by LightningSS
    What's wrong with that, all sequels should try to capture what was great about their predecessors and if possible expand on it. T1/T2 were great achievements, if they weren't we wouldn't be here today. TDS was pretty mediocre overall and contributed to the fall of the designers and almost the Thief franchise. Re-hashing T2 is a great start for T4 and expanding on it as well as using the few decent elements of TDS will surely be good for reviving Thief.
    Originally Posted by jtr7
    Restoration of what was missing is a first step. Improving the core mechanics is the second step. Adding things that we've never seen in any game, but are a natural extension of the established Thief universe comes next.
    Exactly. I really don't see why this isn't being understood after all the discussion.

  4. #54
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    They're stuck in the past and we keep building the bridge to the new frontier across the Main Stream river. And they remain on the shore behind us, mocking us, saying we don't believe in building for the future, that we don't want to move forward, even as we are doing it right there before their eyes. We see the lush land on the other side and have grand visions of what we might do when we get there. They, with their cataracts and near-sightedness, are looking at the pile of rejected lumber and stone we've deemed unworthy for building our bridge, and they are thinking to use it to build a ship to float down the Stream without a paddle or sails--a glorified raft to let the Stream take them--while claiming there is no bridge, and we are not building it. And they are deaf to the sound of our hammers and saws. Yes, they actually continue to tell us we are not doing that which we are in fact doing, and they are the ones who would miss out on the riches calling to us. We build our bridge from stone as old as time, from fragrant and beautifully-grained wood grown heavy and strong over 100 years. Old materials, new bridge. We know the materials are the best, the highest quality, and we have learned over the years to avoid too many knots in our beams, how to drive a nail without splitting them, and how to quarry stone and shape it to our needs. We had to make due with weaker materials in past endeavors, but even then, the love and the craftsmanship made it last longer than anyone thought it could for all its flaws.



    Lest you think we are silly for not taking a boat across, it's the unorthodoxy and craziness of the efforts that will cement the project in history and legend, outlasting the bridge itself. The bridge itself will make sense of the method behind the madness, long after the Monument to rebellion against the order of things imposed by man has crumbled.

  5. #55
    Originally Posted by jtr7
    Are you trolling? Are you frikkin' serious?


    You're perception of what's being said is extremely skewed. It's fallacious and libelous. Restoration of what was missing is a first step. Improving the core menchanics is the second step. Adding things that we've never seen in any game, but are a natural extension of the established Thief universe comes next. That's all. I can't help you with you reading comprehension problem and lack of imagination to explore what we've suggested as new for Thief that isn't borrowed from a hundred other games, or gimmicky. I'll repeat myself, and you'll come back with this BS like I never answered you guys. The problem is on your end for not learning and applying what you've learned, observing and seeing things more clearly.
    My perception is skewed? Not to sound immature, but you're the one who said I was suggesting projected visuals when I was clearly referencing a visual movie playing instead of a load screen. Never once did I suggest in any of my posts that restoration or improvement of game mechanics should be omitted. Where are you dragging these un-referenced points from? Are you somehow trying to decipher some insight from what you think my perception of Thief is?

    Please explain to me how this idea, if implemented correctly, will decrease the enjoyment of the Thief experience or would lead to ANY of the suggestions you have referenced that I suggested in your posts in this thread.

    How is it that your experience is benefited from watching a loading screen when developers can easily, set aside a small amount of processor power to play a visual sequence that is designed as a story telling aid while the computer loads your next mission? How is this production technique detrimental in ANY game? I really am finding it difficult to understand how this technique of preparation is flawed when it has been one of the most fundamental production techniques of developers to try their hardest throughout the years to keep gamers entertained/informed/interested while the game was loading and they are forced to watch a loading screen, through use of hints, in game knowledge or screen shots.

    Also, to say my perception is skewed is very odd.

    Did you not read the name of the thread?

    Did you just enter in here to read people's suggestions automatically say "No, it's been in another game, that won't do for Thief 4"?

  6. #56
    What features could Thi4f borrow from other games?
    Well metal gear solids knock on walls( in one and two I had to use more primitive methods such as jumping up and down and they were not intended for the purpose and did not do an adaquate job ect) and ability to hang of ledges(could be done with the action button as well as pull yourself up to get a good view unlike metal gear). Also solids prone. I could make good use of that. I like freedom of movement in games so that's why I like prone. Still, could be useful.

    In call of cthulu you could block doors with cuboards and stuff. I say take this one step further. Use it to trap guards in rooms, prevent a guard running after you by using objects such as cuboards and crates.

    The mirror used in conviction could be used in a variety of different circumstances by pressing the use item key. Use your imagination.

  7. #57

    Big Grin Wow!

    That comment, my dear jtr7, deserves a triple !
    "The Essence of Balance is Detachment"
    Glyph07

  8. #58
    Originally Posted by Hypevosa
    After playing thief, I really didn't understand why EVERY GAME that had a hint of the ability to sneak didn't use the same system. Even in an action shooter, why do they know I'm there INSTANTLY if I cross that 50 foot marker... they should have to hear or see me first - it's that simple. While other games don't have a light gem, I'd be willing to judge shadows and hope they're deep enough in other non-FPSneaker games.

    (I do know now, don't tell me about development time and complex algorithms that made thief sneaking style possible)
    I remember watching a friend play Quake 2 and thinking to myself, "Why does every game make it so that you are instantly seen from across the room?" Then Thief came out and I was like, "Finally someone got it right. The future of gaming is here." Sadly 10 years has passed and 99.9% of games continue to get it wrong (and the few that get it right insist on ruining the experience with that awful third-person point-of-view). I never understood how this could be, but eventually talked with enough people to realize that most people really do just want to run into a room with their gun blazing and do not like to take the time to carefully plan their assault. Sadly, people that do like to carefully plan are so rare that most games do not even give the option much less design the game around it like Thief did.

    People that like to sneak are so rare that even when a game is made that gets it right and is a huge success (like Thief and Deus Ex especially which won tons of awards) some moron in the design department of the sequel decides to step in and ruin a good thing because he does not understand what is fun about sneaking (which is exactly how Thief 3 was ruined). When you have a good thing that works you try to improve it slightly, not drastically change it. What happened to Thief 3 was bad, but what happened in Deus Ex 2 was unforgivable. They took a game that ran out of shelf space for game-of-the-year awards (and was even voted the best game of all time in one magazine) and make a sequel that was just another game. When someone gives you a recipe that you know produces the best chocolate chip cookies of all time, you do not change 90% of the ingredients because you think you can make it better. You change nothing at all (or perhaps make very minor additions similar to what Thief 2 did when it added a few more items for the players to enjoy).

  9. #59
    Originally Posted by erethizon
    When someone gives you a recipe that you know produces the best chocolate chip cookies of all time, you do not change 90% of the ingredients because you think you can make it better. You change nothing at all (or perhaps make very minor additions similar to what Thief 2 did when it added a few more items for the players to enjoy).
    Wait a second... are you saying Betty Crocker made Thief 1 and 2??

    J/k. Yeah, your Quake 2 experience is what I've seen in games for many years and it gets on my nerves every time. I always 'try' to block it out and try not to notice it, but it's impossible. Not only are they all alerted, but they somehow also shoot with impeccable aim; as if they've had their sights on me. Way to go gaming industry... and players who accept this annoying gameplay... way to go.

  10. #60
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    I think it's funny how in fallout 3 playing as the sneaky character is about the only way to survive without buying 5000000 stim packs if you put it to the hardest difficulty. That kinda made me happy than sneakiness and tactics was rewarded ^_^
    signature image
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  11. #61
    To original post:
    As I said in another thread, Thief 4 should borrow the door and drawer opening system from Penumbra.
    Should make gameplay a lot more stealthy and fun

  12. #62

    Smile Gosh, I've got to try to write something correctly....

    Originally Posted by Namdrol
    Got to be Mario Carts.




    (yes, I know most of you've seen it many times)
    ...'cause I didn't see them and I can barely find the strength to comment, these screen shots are brilliant, I laughed like hell! Ooh, jeez, thanks for this, I arrived later than others to appreciate them but I did very much, promised!
    "The Essence of Balance is Detachment"
    Glyph07

  13. #63
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    seriously jtr7,
    Either tell me that comment took you 1 hour to type OR become a writer of many novels.

    Anyway, I don't think thief shouldn't borrow from any other game, this will mean implementing something that has already done, while thief has been unique up till now, adding fresh ideas that other games could only dream.
    Hello EM!
    *akward silence*

  14. #64
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    Thanks! I can write fast if the idea is clear, but more time is spent cleaning it up.

    The problem is, I can only write in blocks like that, but never keep it going, unless I change styles along with the change of ideas.

    Again, thanks taffers.

  15. #65
    I would like to see in depth conversations and multiple endings ala Mass Effect 1&2. Without Glyph prophecies, why not? (apart from cost and development time)

    But beware of > Tedious RPG Elements <
    Don't let multiple endings and conversations kill the sneaking and quality narrative which already defines Thief.

    I like GamaSutra...

  16. #66
    Nice link. Thanks.

  17. #67
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    Besides the all too real finite-time/development/testing aspects, the multiple endings would need to blend on a point where a sequel can start off on, naturally. I have a strong loathing for dialogue trees in most games (not all), and find they stop the game, take me out of it, and leave me guessing in a way I don't like, rather than find fun and exciting.



    Oh yes, Gamasutra's a fave.

  18. #68
    Oh, I forgot the post when I read the article.
    I think indepth conversations add little and take away alot.
    Fluidity mainly.

  19. #69
    I would like to see in depth conversations and multiple endings ala Mass Effect 1&2. Without Glyph prophecies, why not? (apart from cost and development time)
    A choice story with multiple endings is not fitting for garret. He is a selfish loner, he do not choose between taking a good or evil path
    A "choice" game will also kill the linear story with nice cutscenes we know and love from previous thief games. Games with multiple choices often have horrible pacing. This is okay in an RPG, but bad pacing in a stealth game will really hurt!!

    Also, EM will have to use a lot of resources designing all the multiple choices. Better have EM focused on making the ultimate thief experience in a mission, rather than focusing on branching missions and stories.
    plus, micro beats macro in any stealth game! I would rather have varied missions with lots of stuff to do in a linear order, than a huge "choice" game with lots of small bland missions.

    Finally I would like to add that most “choice” games get boring after a while. This is because the developers often focus on making the choices varied instead of the gameplay.

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